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Reza,</div>
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I found the answer!</div>
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Unless one is a Mailman mailing list admin, this doesn't do you any good but here it is:</div>
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When you log into the admin page of a Mailman mailing list you are in the General Options section.</div>
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Scroll down to the 2nd from the bottom option.</div>
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"Should the Sender header be rewritten for this mailing list to avoid stray bounces? Yes is recommended"</div>
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Set it to No.</div>
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This option is what adds the "-bounces" to the Sender header of the email. Setting it to No stops it from modifying the header so it is just sent as [list name]@jlab.org.</div>
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Now this doesn't clean up any of the bad email addresses with -bounces stored in ones own Outlook. One would need to remove them manually as I explained below. </div>
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I made the change to the mailing lists I own (mcc_ops, Ops, Operators). Being small and internal to Jlab this should not be an issue. For those with large or externally used mailing lists, being able to disable dead addresses might be something they want.</div>
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I never did get a reply from the cc-pr I submitted to the computer center on this. I added the above information to it and closed it out. Whether they do anything with that info???</div>
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Paul</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Reza Kazimi <kazimi@jlab.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, October 4, 2020 2:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Vasilauskis <vasilaus@jlab.org>; bteam@jlab.org <bteam@jlab.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Injector Alignment</font>
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Thank you Paul for a thorough explanation. As usual you are very helpful. </div>
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Reza,</div>
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Reza Kazimi<br>
kazimi@jlab.org</div>
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Paul Vasilauskis <vasilaus@jlab.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, October 4, 2020 11:11:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Reza Kazimi <kazimi@jlab.org>; bteam@jlab.org <bteam@jlab.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Injector Alignment</font>
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Reza,</div>
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You are not alone. I occasionally have to straighten this issue out with the Ops mailman mailing lists. I believe the issue stems from the mailman software using <mail group>-bounces@jlab.org in the From address so that automatically returned messages (return
to sender) have "bounces" in the name and can be flagged to be specially processed (if an email address keeps bouncing mail back to the mailman server, each bounce scores a point and when enough points are collected for an address, the mailman server stops
using the address as it is either bad or the mailbox is full). That itself is no problem but then, in an effort to "help" make your life easier, Outlook harvests email addresses from the email you receive, then autofill presents to you these email addresses
it has come across including ones with <span style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important"><mail group>-bounces@jlab.org as you start to type an address. One though temporary solution is
to start an email, enter "bteam" (or any other favorite mailing list) in the address space. It should present you a list of email addresses to select from. In this case "bteam@jlab.org" and "bteam-bounces@jlab.org". While the list of addresses is displayed,
move your mouse over the list and you should see an X to the right of each address. Clicking the X for the address with "bounces" in it will remove it from your autofill source list, well at least for now. I don't know if it has to come across an address just
once or X number of times before it adds it to the auto fill list but eventually it will be back. Unfortunately I have googled and not found any way to prevent it from harvesting the bad address again. When I come in Monday I will file a ccPR with the above
asking why they can't make the two programs work together. Until then, when you select an address, chose the shorter one
<i>without </i>the "bounces" in the name.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">Paul</span></div>
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<div id="x_x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> BTeam <bteam-bounces@jlab.org> on behalf of Reza Kazimi <kazimi@jlab.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 2, 2020 6:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> bteam@jlab.org <bteam@jlab.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [BTeam] Fwd: Injector Alignment</font>
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<div dir="auto" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255); text-align:left"><span style="font-size:12pt">I do not know what
</span><span style="font-size:12pt">the difference between bteam and BTeam.bounces is in the jlab.org mailing system.</span><br>
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Please someone explain why we need this confusion and why BTeam.bounces shows up first with capital letters if it is not the real bteam email. So when I or others send emails to capitalized BTeam does it even go to all members of bteam "directly"? If both email
groups are the same can we eliminate one?</div>
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So many questions for your weekend. </div>
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<div dir="auto" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">I'm forwarding Will's email to bteam, I think, maybe, perhaps.</div>
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Reza,</div>
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Reza Kazimi<br>
kazimi@jlab.org</div>
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<div id="x_x_x_divRplyFwdMsg"><strong>From:</strong> Will Oren <oren@jlab.org><br>
<strong>Sent:</strong> Friday, October 2, 2020, 3:53 PM<br>
<strong>To:</strong> Reza Kazimi; Joe Grames; Christopher Curtis<br>
<strong>Cc:</strong> Chris Gould; Matthew Poelker; BTeam; Camille Ginsburg; Alicia Hofler; Yan Wang<br>
<strong>Subject:</strong> Re: Injector Alignment<br>
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Reza,</div>
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This is interesting and reminds me of my old job. Beamline designers should always keep in mind areas like the injector to N.Linac or beam transport line to Hall "joints" These areas almost always develop discontinuities over time for a couple of reasons.
The first is quite practical - the civil construction of such places usually involve a structural change resulting in a joint where the two different structures show their relative movement. The second comes from geometry that us alignment guys can't easily
overcome because of lines of sight and usually narrowing areas of access. These geometric issues also create a "weak joint" between control network structures.</div>
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So with that all said, beam line designers should provide for the possibility of extra steering or some other optical compensation for a "joint" in a beamline that correspond to structural joints in the beam enclosure.<br>
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Thanks for the flashback to my previous life where I felt a bit more useful. <span id="x_x_x_🙂">
🙂</span><br>
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Will<br>
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<div id="x_x_x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Reza Kazimi <kazimi@jlab.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 2, 2020 7:15 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Joe Grames <grames@jlab.org>; Christopher Curtis <curtis@jlab.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Chris Gould <gould@jlab.org>; Matthew Poelker <poelker@jlab.org>; BTeam <bteam-bounces@jlab.org>; Will Oren <oren@jlab.org>; Camille Ginsburg <ginsburg@jlab.org>; Alicia Hofler <hofler@jlab.org>; Yan Wang <ywang@jlab.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Injector Alignment</font>
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<div dir="auto" style="text-align:left">I had a good meeting yesterday <span style="font-size:16px; background-color:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">(Thursday Oct 01-20) with</span> Curtis, Gould, and Grames on Injector Alignment. The decision is
to leave things as is.</div>
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<div dir="auto" style="text-align:left">What does it mean?</div>
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<div dir="auto" style="text-align:left">(Chris Curtis please correct me if I misstate something)</div>
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<div dir="auto" style="text-align:left">According to the latest surveys (2008 & 2012) there is an offset of about 1.2 mm in X and 1.5 mm in Z between injector and North Linac coordinates. Everything before girder 0L03 is aligned to injector coordinates and
everything from 0L03 and higher is aligned to NL coordinates.</div>
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<div dir="auto" style="text-align:left">This situation causes almost no problem for us in operating or <span style="font-size:12pt">modeling of the Injector. Why? Because there is a long drift right before 0L03. A 1.2 mm X offset becomes unnoticeable in a long
drift. (Z offset is even more insignificant) </span></div>
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<div dir="auto" style="text-align:left"><span style="font-size:12pt">Now, if we attempt to eliminate this coordinates' difference during the Phase 1 of injector upgrade, this 1.2 mm offset will show up next year right at the choppers where the elements are
much closer to each other and 1.2 mm offset will all of a sudden become significant.</span></div>
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<div dir="auto" style="text-align:left"><span style="font-size:12pt">The other point to consider is that there is no guarantee that the North Linac won't move farther with respect to the injector in future. It may continue in the same direction or reverse course.
Since moving all injector back and forth is not practical, my vote is to take this offset at a location which is least disruptive, and that would be 0L03 girder. In other words
</span><span style="font-size:16px">don't</span><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span><span style="font-size:16px">change</span><span style="font-size:12pt"> anything.</span></div>
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<div dir="auto" style="text-align:left"><span style="font-size:12pt">The only problem remains is what Chris Curtis brought up and that is potential for confusion when we align elements in the injector. We should keep </span><span style="font-size:12pt">clear
documentation that 0L03 is the breakpoint and make sure there is no ambiguity in the sign of 1.2 mm.</span></div>
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<div dir="auto" style="text-align:left"><span style="font-size:12pt">Chris, if you or other experts in alignment group start a tech note to document this, I would be happy to contribute to any part that falls under my expertise.</span></div>
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</span></div>
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:left"><span style="font-size:12pt">I have added more recipients for the email. Please let us know if we are </span><span style="font-size:12pt">overlooking something important.</span></div>
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<div dir="auto" style="text-align:left">Reza,</div>
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Reza Kazimi<br>
kazimi@jlab.org</div>
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