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Hi Silvia,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I agree with these changes. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thanks,</div>
<div class="">Stepan<br class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jul 3, 2024, at 3:32 PM, <a href="mailto:silvia@jlab.org" class="">
silvia@jlab.org</a> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Hi
Stepan,</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">OK,
what about this new version (attached)? In yellow are the modified</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">sentences.
I removed the lumi upgrade and specified explicitly that we ran</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">at
a lower lumi than the proposals (I was going to say orally it but I</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">agree
that it is better to write it).</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Thank
you very much!</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Best
regards,</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Silvia</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
Hi Silvia,<br class="">
<br class="">
What I commented on slide 21 and the related comment on slide 4 regarding<br class="">
luminosity are in line with what Patrick said in the last sentence of the<br class="">
first paragraph of his email. All our proposals assumed 10^35 luminosity<br class="">
on a single particle, a proton, neutron, or deuteron. So, we ran with 65%<br class="">
of that luminosity in the past, and improved tracking helps to gain the<br class="">
loss in future running.<br class="">
<br class="">
Your new slide does not reflect what is discussed. I do not think you<br class="">
should mention the luminosity upgrade at all. It is still in the state<br class="">
that we do not know the outcome. Instead, with the tracking upgrades, we<br class="">
can already run at a higher luminosity than the nominal.<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br class="">
Stepan<br class="">
<br class="">
On Jul 3, 2024, at 12:51 PM, Patrick Achenbach<br class="">
<<a href="mailto:patricka@jlab.org" class="">patricka@jlab.org</a><<a href="mailto:patricka@jlab.org" class="">mailto:patricka@jlab.org</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
Good morning Silvia and all,<br class="">
<br class="">
I think it depends very much on how this is presented. Your concluding<br class="">
statement from last week's presentation was "the improved CLAS12 tracking<br class="">
and reconstruction, along with the high-luminosity upgrade of CLAS12 will<br class="">
further increase statistical precision for all our measurements". This was<br class="">
perceived by me (and possibly also by Patrizia) that we are requesting the<br class="">
remaining 51 PAC days to get more physics out than originally proposed<br class="">
(maybe it was meant differently). If we emphasize that for the remainder<br class="">
of the RG-B run the luminosity will be higher than the design luminosity,<br class="">
we are giving an argument to PAC reviewers to cut the beam-time. On the<br class="">
other hand, if we emphasize that past data-sets were taken with lower<br class="">
luminosity than proposed, and that future measurements will make up for<br class="">
this loss through an improved efficiency, we are giving an argument to PAC<br class="">
reviewers that the physics program can indeed be completed within a total<br class="">
of 90 PAC days.<br class="">
<br class="">
My recommendation is to emphasize on page 4 the lower luminosity of past<br class="">
runs and present on the same page a remedy for future runs. Then, keep the<br class="">
conclusion statement focused on finishing the proposed physics program<br class="">
without discussing the high-luminosity upgrade.<br class="">
<br class="">
Best,<br class="">
Patrick<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
________________________________<br class="">
From: Clas12_rgb<br class="">
<<a href="mailto:clas12_rgb-bounces@jlab.org" class="">clas12_rgb-bounces@jlab.org</a><<a href="mailto:clas12_rgb-bounces@jlab.org" class="">mailto:clas12_rgb-bounces@jlab.org</a>>> on<br class="">
behalf of Silvia Niccolai via Clas12_rgb<br class="">
<<a href="mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a><<a href="mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a>>><br class="">
Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2024 09:51<br class="">
To: Stepan Stepanyan <<a href="mailto:stepanya@jlab.org" class="">stepanya@jlab.org</a><<a href="mailto:stepanya@jlab.org" class="">mailto:stepanya@jlab.org</a>>><br class="">
Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a><<a href="mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a>><br class="">
<<a href="mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a><<a href="mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a>>><br class="">
Subject: Re: [Clas12_rgb] feedback needed on RGB Jeopardy PAC slides<br class="">
<br class="">
Hi Stepan,<br class="">
thanks a lot for your very useful comments, which I will include in the<br class="">
slides.<br class="">
Just one comment about your point on slide 21. I had a sentence along<br class="">
these lines as my concluding statement in the version of the talk that I<br class="">
presented at the CLAS meeting last week (you can see it on the meeting<br class="">
indico page), but it received a lot of negative feedback, in particular<br class="">
from Patrizia and Patrick. They worry that pointing out that the<br class="">
luminosity and reconstruction efficiency will be higher will weaken the<br class="">
case for requesting beam time. I meant it in the sense that the impact on<br class="">
statistics-starving measurements (such as nDVCS) will be even stronger<br class="">
than the factor ~sqrt(2) in the error bars because we will be able to run<br class="">
in more favorable conditions, and that back in 2019 we didn't manage to<br class="">
run in the conditions of the proposal.<br class="">
So, I am not sure on what's the best way to proceed regarding this<br class="">
point...<br class="">
Best regards,<br class="">
Silvia<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Hi Silvia,<br class="">
<br class="">
Here are some comments:<br class="">
- slide 2, ââ,¬Å"DVCS et al.ââ,¬Â, I am not sure what this means, I<br class="">
think it<br class="">
should be just ââ,¬Å"DVCSââ,¬Â<br class="">
- slide 3, better to have some explanations for ââ,¬Å"inbendingââ,¬Â<br class="">
and<br class="">
ââ,¬Å"outbendingââ,¬Â. For example, you could continue the<br class="">
ââ,¬Å"titleââ,¬Â of<br class="">
bullets as ââ,¬Å" ââ,¬Â¦ 3 different beam energies, and two<br class="">
orientations of the<br class="">
CLAS12 torus magnetic field, inbending and outbending<br class="">
electrons)ââ,¬Â.<br class="">
- slide 4, is it right to quote the luminosity ââ,¬Å"per<br class="">
nucleonââ,¬Â? all our<br class="">
measurements are related to either proton, neutron or deuteron. So the<br class="">
luminosity on these targets is half of the quoted number.<br class="">
- slide 4, Richardââ,¬â"¢s J/psi results are from Pass2<br class="">
- slide 5, the comment about the complementarity of nDVCS and<br class="">
transverse<br class="">
pDVCS - I am not sure this is correct. In each case, you mesure<br class="">
different<br class="">
quark combinations, and if you want to do flavor separation, you need<br class="">
both<br class="">
measurements nDVCS and transverslly polarised pDVCS.<br class="">
- slide 5, I am not sure I understand why you are showing Hall-A data<br class="">
- slide 7, can we write the fit function to the asymmetries, the blue<br class="">
line?<br class="">
- slide 9, the same as above, the fit function. Valeri already<br class="">
commented,<br class="">
I agree that the table is not useful<br class="">
- slide 10, there is space to write some explanations for the plots,<br class="">
for<br class="">
example, what are red bands?<br class="">
- slide 12, a first bullet should explain that neutrons are detected<br class="">
and<br class="">
identified in the CLAS12 forwad calorimeters<br class="">
- slide 21, should we say that with improved software will allow us to<br class="">
run<br class="">
at somewhat hiher luminosity?<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br class="">
Stepan<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">On Jul 1, 2024, at 12:59 PM, Silvia Niccolai via Clas12_rgb<br class="">
<<a href="mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a><<a href="mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
Dear all,<br class="">
following the comments I received for my dry run last Thursday, I made<br class="">
a<br class="">
new version of the Jeopardy slides, that you can find at the following<br class="">
link:<br class="">
<a href="https://box.in2p3.fr/s/BjMRQGqfBEgXJ2Z" class="">https://box.in2p3.fr/s/BjMRQGqfBEgXJ2Z</a><br class="">
Could you please send me your comments and suggestions, ideally by<br class="">
Thursday?<br class="">
<br class="">
And I have a question for Jerry for the GMn slides: the projections<br class="">
that<br class="">
you sent me, and that use the full RGB expected statistics, stop at Q2<br class="">
=<br class="">
10 GeV2, while the preliminary results for the ratio, even broken into<br class="">
the<br class="">
three beam energies, reach Q2~12 GeV2. This goes a bit in<br class="">
contradiction<br class="">
with our statement "Completing RGB will extend the reach in Q 2 and<br class="">
improve statistical precision". How can we fix this? One of the main<br class="">
comments I got last week was to emphasize the need for statistics.<br class="">
Could<br class="">
you maybe extend your projections to 12 GeV2?<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks a lot to all and best regards,<br class="">
Silvia<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
Clas12_rgb mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:Clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">Clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a><<a href="mailto:Clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">mailto:Clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a>><br class="">
<a href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/clas12_rgb" class="">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/clas12_rgb</a><br class="">
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
Clas12_rgb mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:Clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">Clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a><<a href="mailto:Clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">mailto:Clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a>><br class="">
<a href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/clas12_rgb" class="">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/clas12_rgb</a><br class="">
<br class="">
________________________________<br class="">
From: Clas12_rgb<br class="">
<<a href="mailto:clas12_rgb-bounces@jlab.org" class="">clas12_rgb-bounces@jlab.org</a><<a href="mailto:clas12_rgb-bounces@jlab.org" class="">mailto:clas12_rgb-bounces@jlab.org</a>>> on<br class="">
behalf of Silvia Niccolai via Clas12_rgb<br class="">
<<a href="mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a><<a href="mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a>>><br class="">
Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2024 09:51<br class="">
To: Stepan Stepanyan <<a href="mailto:stepanya@jlab.org" class="">stepanya@jlab.org</a><<a href="mailto:stepanya@jlab.org" class="">mailto:stepanya@jlab.org</a>>><br class="">
Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a><<a href="mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a>><br class="">
<<a href="mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a><<a href="mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a>>><br class="">
Subject: Re: [Clas12_rgb] feedback needed on RGB Jeopardy PAC slides<br class="">
<br class="">
Hi Stepan,<br class="">
thanks a lot for your very useful comments, which I will include in the<br class="">
slides.<br class="">
Just one comment about your point on slide 21. I had a sentence along<br class="">
these lines as my concluding statement in the version of the talk that I<br class="">
presented at the CLAS meeting last week (you can see it on the meeting<br class="">
indico page), but it received a lot of negative feedback, in particular<br class="">
from Patrizia and Patrick. They worry that pointing out that the<br class="">
luminosity and reconstruction efficiency will be higher will weaken the<br class="">
case for requesting beam time. I meant it in the sense that the impact on<br class="">
statistics-starving measurements (such as nDVCS) will be even stronger<br class="">
than the factor ~sqrt(2) in the error bars because we will be able to run<br class="">
in more favorable conditions, and that back in 2019 we didn't manage to<br class="">
run in the conditions of the proposal.<br class="">
So, I am not sure on what's the best way to proceed regarding this<br class="">
point...<br class="">
Best regards,<br class="">
Silvia<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Hi Silvia,<br class="">
<br class="">
Here are some comments:<br class="">
- slide 2, ââ,¬Å"DVCS et al.ââ,¬Â, I am not sure what this means, I<br class="">
think it<br class="">
should be just ââ,¬Å"DVCSââ,¬Â<br class="">
- slide 3, better to have some explanations for ââ,¬Å"inbendingââ,¬Â<br class="">
and<br class="">
ââ,¬Å"outbendingââ,¬Â. For example, you could continue the<br class="">
ââ,¬Å"titleââ,¬Â of<br class="">
bullets as ââ,¬Å" ââ,¬Â¦ 3 different beam energies, and two<br class="">
orientations of the<br class="">
CLAS12 torus magnetic field, inbending and outbending<br class="">
electrons)ââ,¬Â.<br class="">
- slide 4, is it right to quote the luminosity ââ,¬Å"per<br class="">
nucleonââ,¬Â? all our<br class="">
measurements are related to either proton, neutron or deuteron. So the<br class="">
luminosity on these targets is half of the quoted number.<br class="">
- slide 4, Richardââ,¬â"¢s J/psi results are from Pass2<br class="">
- slide 5, the comment about the complementarity of nDVCS and<br class="">
transverse<br class="">
pDVCS - I am not sure this is correct. In each case, you mesure<br class="">
different<br class="">
quark combinations, and if you want to do flavor separation, you need<br class="">
both<br class="">
measurements nDVCS and transverslly polarised pDVCS.<br class="">
- slide 5, I am not sure I understand why you are showing Hall-A data<br class="">
- slide 7, can we write the fit function to the asymmetries, the blue<br class="">
line?<br class="">
- slide 9, the same as above, the fit function. Valeri already<br class="">
commented,<br class="">
I agree that the table is not useful<br class="">
- slide 10, there is space to write some explanations for the plots,<br class="">
for<br class="">
example, what are red bands?<br class="">
- slide 12, a first bullet should explain that neutrons are detected<br class="">
and<br class="">
identified in the CLAS12 forwad calorimeters<br class="">
- slide 21, should we say that with improved software will allow us to<br class="">
run<br class="">
at somewhat hiher luminosity?<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br class="">
Stepan<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">On Jul 1, 2024, at 12:59 PM, Silvia Niccolai via Clas12_rgb<br class="">
<<a href="mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a><<a href="mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org" class="">mailto:clas12_rgb@jlab.org</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
Dear all,<br class="">
following the comments I received for my dry run last Thursday, I made<br class="">
a<br class="">
new version of the Jeopardy slides, that you can find at the following<br class="">
link:<br class="">
<a href="https://box.in2p3.fr/s/BjMRQGqfBEgXJ2Z" class="">https://box.in2p3.fr/s/BjMRQGqfBEgXJ2Z</a><br class="">
Could you please send me your comments and suggestions, ideally by<br class="">
Thursday?<br class="">
<br class="">
And I have a question for Jerry for the GMn slides: the projections<br class="">
that<br class="">
you sent me, and that use the full RGB expected statistics, stop at Q2<br class="">
=<br class="">
10 GeV2, while the preliminary results for the ratio, even broken into<br class="">
the<br class="">
three beam energies, reach Q2~12 GeV2. This goes a bit in<br class="">
contradiction<br class="">
with our statement "Completing RGB will extend the reach in Q 2 and<br class="">
improve statistical precision". How can we fix this? One of the main<br class="">
comments I got last week was to emphasize the need for statistics.<br class="">
Could<br class="">
you maybe extend your projections to 12 GeV2?<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks a lot to all and best regards,<br class="">
Silvia<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
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</blockquote>
<br class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<br class="">
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