<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Dear Igor,<div><br></div><div>Be reasonable. Michael has clearly addressed Moskov and has responded to his email. It is fine to include the mailing list to keep the group in the loop on this interesting topic.</div><div><br></div><div>- Volker</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Jul 9, 2015, at 8:09 AM, Igor Strakovsky <<a href="mailto:igor@va.gwu.edu">igor@va.gwu.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">Dear Michael,<br><br>I am afraid but I do not understand - you are asking everybody or somebody<br>in particular? I, for instance, cannot provide you a distribution which<br>your ordering. Sure, I can but it will take a time<br><br>Cheers, Igor<br><br>On Thu, 09 Jul 2015 07:02:21 -0400, "Michael C. Kunkel" <<a href="mailto:mkunkel@jlab.org">mkunkel@jlab.org</a>> wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Greetings,<br>Can you overlay the MxP^2 with pion mass setting on this plot? Using the same kinematic cuts except with pion pid?<br>BR<br>MK<br>----------------------------------------<br>Michael C. Kunkel, PhD<br>Forschungszentrum Jülich<br>Nuclear Physics Institute and Juelich Center for Hadron Physics<br>Experimental Hadron Structure (IKP-1)<br><a href="http://www.fz-juelich.de/ikp">www.fz-juelich.de/ikp</a><br>On 7/9/15 1:11 AM, Amaryan, Moskov wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">Dear all,<br><br>I attach a plot with Mx(p)^2 and M(e+e-\gamma)^2 distributions overlaid. Statistics of both histograms are the same,<br>however, as one can see there is no peak of eta in the invariant mass squared, data are from g11.<br>Invariant mass has no eta in it similar to what Michael showed for g12.<br>One can think of two possibilities, either these are true eta’s decaying to e+e-\gamma, or these are remnants of eta->pi+pi-gamma events.<br>The latter hypothesis was ruled out by plotting invariant mass of pi+pi-\gamma or missing mass of proton for pion mass assignment<br>for the same events that make Mx(p)^2 under lepton assignment.<br><br>Best regards,<br>Moskov.<br><br>On Jul 8, 2015, at 11:02 PM, Amaryan, Moskov <MAmaryan@odu.edu <mailto:MAmaryan@odu.edu>> wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Hi Michael,<br><br>Thanks for your message, looks interesting.<br><br>However we have shown in the CAA and also Georgie has shown it in our meetings that invariant mass of pi+pi-\gamma<br>resolution is much worse than missing mass of proton. The reason is energy resolution of the final state photon and<br>vertex resolution as momentum of the photon is defined through both of these, energy and vertex.<br>Therefore we use missing mass of proton with other cuts, which use pion mass assignment to \pi^+ and \pi^-.<br><br>Now what I have shown on Tuesday, was missing mass of proton with electron (positron) mass assignments.<br>There we clearly see a peak of eta. The mass assignment is arbitrary, of course, but requirement of missing mass squared<br> of pe+e- to be around zero (<0.01 GeV) and missing energy of pe+e- to be E_x>0.2 GeV makes this selection definite, not arbitrary.<br>And the fact that we see peak of eta is a proof that some of pi+pi- tracks are actually e+e- pairs<br><br>The plot you sent around doesn’t show a peak of eta very clearly in the best topology with EC/CC, but one can imagine that with more statistics<br>the eta peak will be visible. However without EC/CC there is no signature of eta whatsoever. Would it be visible in the missing mass of proton in g12?<br><br>It wouldn’t make sense for me to argue that PID on leptons improves invariant mass e+e-\gamma, of course it does.<br><br>The question was which fraction of events that make eta in the missing mass of proton with e+e-\gamma assignment is due to events that were<br>from pi+pi-\gamma final state.<br> I think we have shown that this fraction is negligible.<br><br>It will be interesting to compare missing mass of the proton squared from g11 and g12 (for pe+e-gamma final state) to see if because of different<br>acceptances these two data sets have similar or very different numbers of eta’s.<br><br>It appeared that ntuples we are using from g11 have been eloss applied. In this case eloss for pions and leptons will be the same, I am not sure how different they should be, but the fact that we see peaks of pi0 and eta in the missing mass of proton is indicative that in the first approximation we can neglect eloss uncertainties.<br><br>Best regards,<br>Moskov.<br><br>On Jul 8, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Michael C. Kunkel <mkunkel@jlab.org <mailto:mkunkel@jlab.org>> wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Greetings,<br><br>So I was curious to reproduce my study on pion contamination without the use of CC or EC quantities.<br>I am attaching a plot that shows G12 data that shows 3 lines.<br>Red: G12 data with eloss on pions, pion mass setting, invariant mass PipPimGam; conditions Ngamma > 0 && abs(mm2_PPipPimGam)<0.01 && mE_PPipPim > 0.2<br><br>Blue: G12 data with eloss on leptons,lepton mass setting , invariant mass EpEmGam; conditions Ngamma > 0 && abs(mm2_PEpEmGam)<0.01 && mE_PEpEm > 0.2<br><br>Cyan: G12 data with eloss on leptons,lepton mass setting , invariant mass EpEmGam; conditions Ngamma > 0 && abs(mm2_PEpEmGam)<0.01 && mE_PEpEm > 0.2 && lepton PID through CC and EC. Histogram is scale by x10<br><br><br>As I concluded years ago, and is seen in the histogram, without CC or EC, the eta peak cannot be reproduced in the proper place.<br><br>Total data used:1/463 of g12 data set.<br><br>Hope this helps.<br><br><br>BR<br>MK<br>----------------------------------------<br>Michael C. Kunkel, PhD<br>Forschungszentrum Jülich<br>Nuclear Physics Institute and Juelich Center for Hadron Physics<br>Experimental Hadron Structure (IKP-1)<br>www.fz-juelich.de/ikp <http://www.fz-juelich.de/ikp><br><br><br><br>-- <br>BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS<br>------------------------------------------------------<br><br>NOTE: This message was trained as non-spam. If this is wrong,<br>please correct the training as soon as possible.<br><br>Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 01ONRzDqD) is spam:<br>Spam: about:blank<br>Not spam: about:blank<br>Forget vote: about:blank<br>------------------------------------------------------<br>END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS<br><br><Lepton_Pion_mass_comparision.pdf>_______________________________________________<br>Clas_lmd mailing list<br>Clas_lmd@jlab.org <mailto:Clas_lmd@jlab.org><br>https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/clas_lmd<br></blockquote><br>Prof. Moskov Amaryan<br>Department of Physics<br>Old Dominion University<br>4600 Elkhorn Avenue<br>Norfolk, VA 23529<br><br>phone:757-683-4614<br><br><br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Spam <https://www.spamtrap.odu.edu/canit/b.php?i=03OO379CF&m=3dfc9e5b1f95&t=20150708&c=s><br>Not spam <https://www.spamtrap.odu.edu/canit/b.php?i=03OO379CF&m=3dfc9e5b1f95&t=20150708&c=n><br>Forget previous vote <https://www.spamtrap.odu.edu/canit/b.php?i=03OO379CF&m=3dfc9e5b1f95&t=20150708&c=f><br>_______________________________________________<br>Clas_lmd mailing list<br>Clas_lmd@jlab.org <mailto:Clas_lmd@jlab.org><br>https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/clas_lmd<br></blockquote><br>Prof. Moskov Amaryan<br>Department of Physics<br>Old Dominion University<br>4600 Elkhorn Avenue<br>Norfolk, VA 23529<br><br>phone:757-683-4614<br><br><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Clas_lmd mailing list<br>Clas_lmd@jlab.org<br>https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/clas_lmd<br></blockquote></blockquote><br>Igor Strakovsky, SAID CNS The George Washington University<br>Tel: 703-726-8344(NV),202-994-4742(FB),Skype: igors1945_2<br>Fax: 202-994-3001(FB),Emails: <a href="mailto:igor@va.gwu.edu">igor@va.gwu.edu</a>, <a href="mailto:igor@jlab.org">igor@jlab.org</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>Clas_lmd mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Clas_lmd@jlab.org">Clas_lmd@jlab.org</a><br>https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/clas_lmd<br></blockquote></div><div apple-content-edited="true"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></span></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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