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Greetings,<br>
<br>
<br>
<font color="#ff0000">"</font>
<div><font color="#ff0000">Although it is not clear to me what are
we going to learn from the requested plot I created it from g11
data.</font></div>
<font color="#ff0000">
</font>
<div><font color="#ff0000">See it here:</font></div>
<font color="#ff0000">
"</font><br>
As you can see from your plots, middle and bottom, that there exists
eta regardless of mass assignment. This means just assigning lepton
mass does not necessarily mean they are leptons.<br>
<br>
<font color="#ff0000">"<br>
</font>
<div><font color="#ff0000">It would have been more interesting to
compare the same plots from g12 to understand which dataset is</font></div>
<font color="#ff0000">
</font>
<div><font color="#ff0000">more powerful statistically in particular
channels.</font></div>
<font color="#ff0000">
"<br>
</font><br>
See my last email.<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">
BR
MK
----------------------------------------
Michael C. Kunkel, PhD
Forschungszentrum Jülich
Nuclear Physics Institute and Juelich Center for Hadron Physics
Experimental Hadron Structure (IKP-1)
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.fz-juelich.de/ikp">www.fz-juelich.de/ikp</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/10/15 1:51 PM, Amaryan, Moskov
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:9E9AF50B-943C-4D01-9506-F8EC068326B8@odu.edu"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<div>Dear all,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Although it is not clear to me what are we going to learn
from the requested plot I created it from g11 data.</div>
<div>See it here:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.lions.odu.edu/%7Emamaryan/all_mxp.pdf">http://www.lions.odu.edu/~mamaryan/all_mxp.pdf</a></div>
<div>The upper panel is invariant mass of e+e-\gamma squared, the
middle one is for M_{x}(p)^2 with electron assignment,</div>
<div>the lower one is the same with pion mass assignment.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It would have been more interesting to compare the same plots
from g12 to understand which dataset is</div>
<div>more powerful statistically in particular channels.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div>Moskov.</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">________________________________________<br>
From: Clas_lmd [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:clas_lmd-bounces@jlab.org">clas_lmd-bounces@jlab.org</a>]
on behalf of Michael C. Kunkel [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mkunkel@jlab.org">mkunkel@jlab.org</a>]<br>
Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2015 7:02 AM<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:clas_lmd@jlab.org">clas_lmd@jlab.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Clas_lmd] lepton pion PID<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
<br>
Can you overlay the MxP^2 with pion mass setting on this plot?
Using the same kinematic cuts except with pion pid?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
BR<br>
MK<br>
----------------------------------------<br>
Michael C. Kunkel, PhD<br>
Forschungszentrum Jülich<br>
Nuclear Physics Institute and Juelich Center for Hadron
Physics<br>
Experimental Hadron Structure (IKP-1)<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.fz-juelich.de/ikp">www.fz-juelich.de/ikp</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.fz-juelich.de/ikp">http://www.fz-juelich.de/ikp</a>><br>
<br>
On 7/9/15 1:11 AM, Amaryan, Moskov wrote:<br>
Dear all,<br>
<br>
I attach a plot with Mx(p)^2 and M(e+e-\gamma)^2 distributions
overlaid. Statistics of both histograms are the same,<br>
however, as one can see there is no peak of eta in the
invariant mass squared, data are from g11.<br>
Invariant mass has no eta in it similar to what Michael
showed for g12.<br>
One can think of two possibilities, either these are true
eta’s decaying to e+e-\gamma, or these are remnants of
eta->pi+pi-gamma events.<br>
The latter hypothesis was ruled out by plotting invariant mass
of pi+pi-\gamma or missing mass of proton for pion mass
assignment<br>
for the same events that make Mx(p)^2 under lepton assignment.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Moskov.<br>
<br>
On Jul 8, 2015, at 11:02 PM, Amaryan, Moskov <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:MAmaryan@odu.edu">MAmaryan@odu.edu</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:MAmaryan@odu.edu">mailto:MAmaryan@odu.edu</a>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Hi Michael,<br>
<br>
Thanks for your message, looks interesting.<br>
<br>
However we have shown in the CAA and also Georgie has shown it
in our meetings that invariant mass of pi+pi-\gamma<br>
resolution is much worse than missing mass of proton. The
reason is energy resolution of the final state photon and<br>
vertex resolution as momentum of the photon is defined through
both of these, energy and vertex.<br>
Therefore we use missing mass of proton with other cuts,
which use pion mass assignment to \pi^+ and \pi^-.<br>
<br>
Now what I have shown on Tuesday, was missing mass of proton
with electron (positron) mass assignments.<br>
There we clearly see a peak of eta. The mass assignment is
arbitrary, of course, but requirement of missing mass squared<br>
of pe+e- to be around zero (<0.01 GeV) and missing energy
of pe+e- to be E_x>0.2 GeV makes this selection definite,
not arbitrary.<br>
And the fact that we see peak of eta is a proof that some of
pi+pi- tracks are actually e+e- pairs<br>
<br>
The plot you sent around doesn’t show a peak of eta very
clearly in the best topology with EC/CC, but one can imagine
that with more statistics<br>
the eta peak will be visible. However without EC/CC there is
no signature of eta whatsoever. Would it be visible in the
missing mass of proton in g12?<br>
<br>
It wouldn’t make sense for me to argue that PID on leptons
improves invariant mass e+e-\gamma, of course it does.<br>
<br>
The question was which fraction of events that make eta in the
missing mass of proton with e+e-\gamma assignment is due to
events that were<br>
from pi+pi-\gamma final state.<br>
I think we have shown that this fraction is negligible.<br>
<br>
It will be interesting to compare missing mass of the proton
squared from g11 and g12 (for pe+e-gamma final state) to see
if because of different<br>
acceptances these two data sets have similar or very different
numbers of eta’s.<br>
<br>
It appeared that ntuples we are using from g11 have been eloss
applied. In this case eloss for pions and leptons will be the
same, I am not sure how different they should be, but the fact
that we see peaks of pi0 and eta in the missing mass of proton
is indicative that in the first approximation we can neglect
eloss uncertainties.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Moskov.<br>
<br>
On Jul 8, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Michael C. Kunkel <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mkunkel@jlab.org">mkunkel@jlab.org</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mkunkel@jlab.org">mailto:mkunkel@jlab.org</a>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
<br>
So I was curious to reproduce my study on pion contamination
without the use of CC or EC quantities.<br>
I am attaching a plot that shows G12 data that shows 3 lines.<br>
Red: G12 data with eloss on pions, pion mass setting,
invariant mass PipPimGam; conditions Ngamma > 0 &&
abs(mm2_PPipPimGam)<0.01 && mE_PPipPim > 0.2<br>
<br>
Blue: G12 data with eloss on leptons,lepton mass setting ,
invariant mass EpEmGam; conditions Ngamma > 0 &&
abs(mm2_PEpEmGam)<0.01 && mE_PEpEm > 0.2<br>
<br>
Cyan: G12 data with eloss on leptons,lepton mass setting ,
invariant mass EpEmGam; conditions Ngamma > 0 &&
abs(mm2_PEpEmGam)<0.01 && mE_PEpEm > 0.2
&& lepton PID through CC and EC. Histogram is scale by
x10<br>
<br>
<br>
As I concluded years ago, and is seen in the histogram,
without CC or EC, the eta peak cannot be reproduced in the
proper place.<br>
<br>
Total data used:1/463 of g12 data set.<br>
<br>
Hope this helps.<br>
<br>
<br>
BR<br>
MK<br>
----------------------------------------<br>
Michael C. Kunkel, PhD<br>
Forschungszentrum Jülich<br>
Nuclear Physics Institute and Juelich Center for Hadron
Physics<br>
Experimental Hadron Structure (IKP-1)<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.fz-juelich.de/ikp">www.fz-juelich.de/ikp</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.fz-juelich.de/ikp">http://www.fz-juelich.de/ikp</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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Old Dominion University<br>
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Prof. Moskov Amaryan<br>
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4600 Elkhorn Avenue</div>
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Norfolk, VA 23529</div>
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<br>
phone:757-683-4614<br>
<br>
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