<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Hi Whit,</div>
<div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Answers are interleaved below in blue.</div>
<div id="appendonsend"></div>
<div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<hr style="display: inline-block; width: 98%;">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Armstrong, Whitney R. <warmstrong@anl.gov><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 15, 2025 5:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Brian Eng <beng@jlab.org>; dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org <dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Whitney R. Armstrong <whit@jlab.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [dsg-hallb_gas] AHDC gas control</span>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Thanks Brian.</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Marc,</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">I have a few more questions.</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">1. <span style="font-size: 12pt;">I am still confused about this offset.</span></div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Is the transducer reporting an absolute pressure minus a fixed absolute offset? That seems odd to me. </div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(12, 100, 192);">
Sort of, the only difference between a psig and psia output is what the zero reads at, either right at vacuum or 1 atm. This particular sensor the 0 psig output is equal to 14.7 psia. We don't use this offset anywhere in the software though, the only conversions
done are to convert the 4-20 mA output to mbar (rather than the native psig output of the sensor).</div>
<div style="direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(12, 100, 192);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(12, 100, 192);">
You'd need a differential pressure sensor to have it referenced to a changing atmospheric pressure.</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">2. Also, where is the ambient pressure transducer located?</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(12, 100, 192);">
<span style="font-size: 16px;">The ambient pressure is part of an existing Hall B setup and not done with any new hardware specific to ALERT. It is on the Forward Carriage Level 1, at the top of a rack there so
</span>roughly<span style="font-size: 16px;"> beam level.</span></div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">3. What are the pid loop inputs for the automaitc mode? Average pressure, just one transducer or something else?</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(12, 100, 192);">
Just one transducer is used at a time, the PID input can be toggled between the two on the buffer tank. IIRC Bob added this for redundancy purposes.</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Thanks,</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Whit</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto" id="x_ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Whitney Armstrong</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Assistant Physicist</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Physics Division</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Building 203</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Argonne National Laboratory </div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">9700 S. Cass Ave. | Argonne, IL 60439</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">630-252-5112 | 717-341-1080 mobile</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">warmstrong@anl.gov </div>
</div>
<div dir="auto" id="x_mail-editor-reference-message-container"><br>
<hr style="display: inline-block; width: 98%;">
<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Brian Eng <beng@jlab.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 15, 2025 4:14:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Armstrong, Whitney R. <warmstrong@anl.gov><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Fwd: [dsg-hallb_gas] AHDC gas control<br>
</div>
<br>
<div dir="ltr" id="x_pfptBanner5ezd98o" style="visibility:visible!important;opacity:1!important;max-width:none!important;max-height:none!important;display:block!important;text-align:left!important;margin:16px 0px!important;padding:8px 16px!important;border-radius:4px!important;min-width:200px!important;border-top:4px solid rgb(144,164,174)!important;background-color:rgb(208,216,220)">
<div id="x_pfptBanner5ezd98o" style="visibility:visible!important;opacity:1!important;max-height:none!important;float:left!important;display:block!important;margin:0px 0px 1px!important;max-width:600px!important;background-color:rgb(208,216,220)">
<div id="x_pfptBanner5ezd98o" style="opacity:1!important;max-width:none!important;max-height:none!important;display:block!important;visibility:visible!important;font-family:Arial,sans-serif!important;font-weight:bold!important;font-size:14px!important;line-height:18px!important;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(208,216,220)">
This Message Is From an External Sender</div>
<div id="x_pfptBanner5ezd98o" style="font-weight:normal;opacity:1!important;max-width:none!important;max-height:none!important;display:block!important;visibility:visible!important;font-family:Arial,sans-serif!important;font-size:12px!important;line-height:18px!important;margin-top:2px!important;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(208,216,220)">
This message came from outside your organization.</div>
</div>
<div style="line-height: 0; display: block; font-size: 0.01px;"> </div>
</div>
I’m not sure you got my previous email or not, so forwarding it directly to you.<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-family: -webkit-system-font, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From: </b></span>Brian Eng via dsg-hallb_gas <dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-family: -webkit-system-font, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>Subject: </b></span><b>Re: [dsg-hallb_gas] AHDC gas control</b></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-family: -webkit-system-font, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>Date: </b></span>January 15, 2025 at 1:28:10 PM EST</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-family: -webkit-system-font, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>To: </b></span>Marc Mcmullen via dsg-hallb_gas <dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-family: -webkit-system-font, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>Reply-To: </b></span>Brian Eng <beng@jlab.org></div>
<br>
<div>Hi Whit,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The control pressure is measured by the transmitter in psig, which is then converted to mbar in software. According to the manufacturer it has a fixed 14.7 psi (so ~1013.529 mbar) offset. If the set point is at 90 mbar it is really ~1103.529 mbar.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The ambient pressure sensor readout that is being displayed got stuck, rebooting it got the values updating again. The EPICS PV that ALERT is using is B_SYS_WEATHER_FC_L1:Press2 in case you wanted to monitor it directly/separately.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Let me know if there’s any other questions.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Brian</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>On Jan 15, 2025, at 12:34 PM, Marc Mcmullen via dsg-hallb_gas <dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org> wrote:</div>
<br>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Hi Bob, I’m out sick. So I’m forwarding this tho the group. Brian can probably look into it. </div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Also I looked and the input flow to MFC 308 is set to 20 sccm. Maybe change that to 167 sccm. </div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Marc</div>
<div id="x_ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
<div><br>
</div>
Get <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__urldefense.us_v3_-5F-5Fhttps-3A__aka.ms_o0ukef-5F-5F-3B-21-21G-5FuCfscf7eWS-21cMG23h01E0cLmgFH7Y9odbg4EzjkBfFl9OZtr6hRBN15weKjK-2DA447CVEL2tI981ZqrTiVinSEmOzA-24&d=DwMGaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=vRrieMgp4FbexQ5kgKImwA&m=4ivNaLHIEd-1YRwvzy3oMWNJI8Ue6XJZGH3uNE1qb4l1RnT5S_C-NQKl_g0KWprR&s=wAuBpR_1TE8UqMpR4nmS-vlDwbpou22SaUW-qbr4f0I&e=" id="OWA5951c0c4-fea4-9459-6691-cfac4b26aade" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">
Outlook for iOS</a></div>
<div id="x_mail-editor-reference-message-container" class="x_ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message">
<hr style="display: inline-block; width: 98%;">
<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b>From:</b> Bob Miller <rmiller@jlab.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 15, 2025 11:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Armstrong, Whitney R. <warmstrong@anl.gov>; Marc Mcmullen <mcmullen@jlab.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: AHDC gas control</span>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </div>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
Hi Whitney,</div>
<div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
I will refer this question to Marc, as he wrote the controls.</div>
<div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<br>
</div>
<div id="x_Signature" class="x_elementToProof">
<div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
Bob Miller</div>
<div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
Hall B Lead Engineer</div>
<div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
(757) 822-9586</div>
</div>
<div id="x_appendonsend"></div>
<hr style="display: inline-block; width: 98%;">
<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><b>From:</b> Armstrong, Whitney R. <warmstrong@anl.gov><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 15, 2025 10:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bob Miller <rmiller@jlab.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] AHDC gas control</span>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Hi Bob,</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">I have a question about the gas control system. When the alert gas set point is set to 90 mbar, what is that relative to in order to provide stable absolute pressure?</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Also, the ambient pressure readout appears to not change and is at a value of 1017.54.</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Thanks,</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Whit</div>
<div id="x_x_ms-outlook-mobile-signature" dir="auto">
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Whitney Armstrong</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Assistant Physicist</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Physics Division</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Building 203</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Argonne National Laboratory </div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">9700 S. Cass Ave. | Argonne, IL 60439</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">630-252-5112 | 717-341-1080 mobile</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">warmstrong@anl.gov </div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
dsg-hallb_gas mailing list<br>
dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__urldefense.us_v3_-5F-5Fhttps-3A__mailman.jlab.org_mailman_listinfo_dsg-2Dhallb-5Fgas-5F-5F-3B-21-21G-5FuCfscf7eWS-21cMG23h01E0cLmgFH7Y9odbg4EzjkBfFl9OZtr6hRBN15weKjK-2DA447CVEL2tI981ZqrTiVgjJ6bl0g-24&d=DwMGaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=vRrieMgp4FbexQ5kgKImwA&m=4ivNaLHIEd-1YRwvzy3oMWNJI8Ue6XJZGH3uNE1qb4l1RnT5S_C-NQKl_g0KWprR&s=p-IN2hMEYI6Dz23qU62JEFm4B7QZE4-oo6kEz4zBIlE&e=" id="OWAa26a9084-7821-ff3c-d1df-480287728888" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-hallb_gas</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
dsg-hallb_gas mailing list<br>
dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__urldefense.us_v3_-5F-5Fhttps-3A__mailman.jlab.org_mailman_listinfo_dsg-2Dhallb-5Fgas-5F-5F-3B-21-21G-5FuCfscf7eWS-21cMG23h01E0cLmgFH7Y9odbg4EzjkBfFl9OZtr6hRBN15weKjK-2DA447CVEL2tI981ZqrTiVgjJ6bl0g-24&d=DwMGaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=vRrieMgp4FbexQ5kgKImwA&m=4ivNaLHIEd-1YRwvzy3oMWNJI8Ue6XJZGH3uNE1qb4l1RnT5S_C-NQKl_g0KWprR&s=p-IN2hMEYI6Dz23qU62JEFm4B7QZE4-oo6kEz4zBIlE&e=" id="OWA60d963ae-d27d-b1f0-0954-625ff53ddab4" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-hallb_gas</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</body>
</html>