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Dwyer hasn't responded to any emails yet.</div>
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The code doesn't do anything with the ambient pressure other than display it.</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Armstrong, Whitney R. <warmstrong@anl.gov><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 21, 2025 10:49 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Brian Eng <beng@jlab.org>; dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org <dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Whitney R. Armstrong <whit@jlab.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [dsg-hallb_gas] AHDC gas control</font>
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<div dir="auto">Sorry for the incomplete email.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">If the transducer are indeed relative pressure, then there must be some logic built into the PID controller that also uses the ambient pressure measurement.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Could you or Marc please verify whether this is or is not the case?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Thanks</div>
<div id="x_ms-outlook-mobile-signature" dir="auto">
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Whitney Armstrong</div>
<div dir="auto">Assistant Physicist</div>
<div dir="auto">Physics Division</div>
<div dir="auto">Building 203</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Argonne National Laboratory </div>
<div dir="auto">9700 S. Cass Ave. | Argonne, IL 60439</div>
<div dir="auto">630-252-5112 | 717-341-1080 mobile</div>
<div dir="auto">warmstrong@anl.gov </div>
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Armstrong, Whitney R. <warmstrong@anl.gov><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 21, 2025 10:42:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Brian Eng <beng@jlab.org>; dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org <dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Whitney R. Armstrong <whit@jlab.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dsg-hallb_gas] AHDC gas control</font>
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<div dir="auto">Hi Brian,</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Any follow up on this? As far as I can tell the transducers are relative and unless they </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id="x_x_ms-outlook-mobile-signature" dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">Whitney Armstrong</div>
<div dir="auto">Assistant Physicist</div>
<div dir="auto">Physics Division</div>
<div dir="auto">Building 203</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Argonne National Laboratory </div>
<div dir="auto">9700 S. Cass Ave. | Argonne, IL 60439</div>
<div dir="auto">630-252-5112 | 717-341-1080 mobile</div>
<div dir="auto">warmstrong@anl.gov </div>
</div>
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<div id="x_x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Brian Eng <beng@jlab.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 16, 2025 9:18:45 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Armstrong, Whitney R. <warmstrong@anl.gov>; dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org <dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Whitney R. Armstrong <whit@jlab.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dsg-hallb_gas] AHDC gas control</font>
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Hi Whit, That's what the Dwyer rep said when I called to ask what the difference between the psig and psia sensors were for that model. I'll try again via email so we have some sort of paper trail. Honestly this isn't the sensor I would have</div>
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Hi Whit,</div>
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That's what the Dwyer rep said when I called to ask what the difference between the psig and psia sensors were for that model.</div>
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I'll try again via email so we have some sort of paper trail.</div>
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Honestly this isn't the sensor I would have selected if we had known about the absolute pressure requirement, most of the gaseous detector systems we deal with in Hall B use differential ones, or maybe gauge. These sensors were selected well before that was
changed later on in the development process.</div>
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<div id="x_x_x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b>From:</b> Armstrong, Whitney R. <warmstrong@anl.gov><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 16, 2025 9:11 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Brian Eng <beng@jlab.org>; dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org <dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Whitney R. Armstrong <whit@jlab.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [dsg-hallb_gas] AHDC gas control</span>
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<div style="font-size:11pt">Hi Brian,<br>
<br>
I am sorry but I do not think the pressure transducer is an absolute measurement.<br>
<br>
Dwyer 626-06-GH-P1-E4-S<br>
<br>
Can you please verify that it operates as you describe? Does it really have an absolute offset, because I am not seeing this anywhere in the manual/specs.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Whit<br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: Brian Eng <beng@jlab.org><br>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2025 5:01 PM<br>
To: Armstrong, Whitney R.; dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org<br>
Cc: Whitney R. Armstrong<br>
Subject: Re: [dsg-hallb_gas] AHDC gas control<br>
<br>
Hi Whit, Answers are interleaved below in blue. From: Armstrong, Whitney R. <warmstrong@ anl. gov> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2025 5: 26 PM To: Brian Eng <beng@ jlab. org>; dsg-hallb_gas@ jlab. org <dsg-hallb_gas@ jlab. org> Cc: Whitney<br>
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Hi Whit,<br>
<br>
Answers are interleaved below in blue.<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Armstrong, Whitney R. <warmstrong@anl.gov><br>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2025 5:26 PM<br>
To: Brian Eng <beng@jlab.org>; dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org <dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org><br>
Cc: Whitney R. Armstrong <whit@jlab.org><br>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [dsg-hallb_gas] AHDC gas control<br>
<br>
Thanks Brian.<br>
<br>
Marc,<br>
<br>
I have a few more questions.<br>
<br>
1. I am still confused about this offset.<br>
Is the transducer reporting an absolute pressure minus a fixed absolute offset? That seems odd to me.<br>
<br>
Sort of, the only difference between a psig and psia output is what the zero reads at, either right at vacuum or 1 atm. This particular sensor the 0 psig output is equal to 14.7 psia. We don't use this offset anywhere in the software though, the only conversions
done are to convert the 4-20 mA output to mbar (rather than the native psig output of the sensor).<br>
<br>
You'd need a differential pressure sensor to have it referenced to a changing atmospheric pressure.<br>
<br>
2. Also, where is the ambient pressure transducer located?<br>
<br>
The ambient pressure is part of an existing Hall B setup and not done with any new hardware specific to ALERT. It is on the Forward Carriage Level 1, at the top of a rack there so roughly beam level.<br>
<br>
3. What are the pid loop inputs for the automaitc mode? Average pressure, just one transducer or something else?<br>
<br>
Just one transducer is used at a time, the PID input can be toggled between the two on the buffer tank. IIRC Bob added this for redundancy purposes.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Whit<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Whitney Armstrong<br>
Assistant Physicist<br>
Physics Division<br>
Building 203<br>
<br>
Argonne National Laboratory<br>
9700 S. Cass Ave. | Argonne, IL 60439<br>
630-252-5112 | 717-341-1080 mobile<br>
warmstrong@anl.gov<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Brian Eng <beng@jlab.org><br>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2025 4:14:13 PM<br>
To: Armstrong, Whitney R. <warmstrong@anl.gov><br>
Subject: Fwd: [dsg-hallb_gas] AHDC gas control<br>
<br>
This Message Is From an External Sender<br>
This message came from outside your organization.<br>
<br>
I’m not sure you got my previous email or not, so forwarding it directly to you.<br>
<br>
Begin forwarded message:<br>
<br>
From: Brian Eng via dsg-hallb_gas <dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org><br>
Subject: Re: [dsg-hallb_gas] AHDC gas control<br>
Date: January 15, 2025 at 1:28:10 PM EST<br>
To: Marc Mcmullen via dsg-hallb_gas <dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org><br>
Reply-To: Brian Eng <beng@jlab.org><br>
<br>
Hi Whit,<br>
<br>
The control pressure is measured by the transmitter in psig, which is then converted to mbar in software. According to the manufacturer it has a fixed 14.7 psi (so ~1013.529 mbar) offset. If the set point is at 90 mbar it is really ~1103.529 mbar.<br>
<br>
The ambient pressure sensor readout that is being displayed got stuck, rebooting it got the values updating again. The EPICS PV that ALERT is using is B_SYS_WEATHER_FC_L1:Press2 in case you wanted to monitor it directly/separately.<br>
<br>
Let me know if there’s any other questions.<br>
<br>
Brian<br>
<br>
On Jan 15, 2025, at 12:34 PM, Marc Mcmullen via dsg-hallb_gas <dsg-hallb_gas@jlab.org> wrote:<br>
<br>
Hi Bob, I’m out sick. So I’m forwarding this tho the group. Brian can probably look into it.<br>
<br>
Also I looked and the input flow to MFC 308 is set to 20 sccm. Maybe change that to 167 sccm.<br>
<br>
Marc<br>
<br>
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________________________________<br>
From: Bob Miller <rmiller@jlab.org><br>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2025 11:20 AM<br>
To: Armstrong, Whitney R. <warmstrong@anl.gov>; Marc Mcmullen <mcmullen@jlab.org><br>
Subject: Re: AHDC gas control<br>
<br>
Hi Whitney,<br>
<br>
I will refer this question to Marc, as he wrote the controls.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Bob Miller<br>
Hall B Lead Engineer<br>
(757) 822-9586<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Armstrong, Whitney R. <warmstrong@anl.gov><br>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2025 10:44 AM<br>
To: Bob Miller <rmiller@jlab.org><br>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] AHDC gas control<br>
<br>
Hi Bob,<br>
<br>
I have a question about the gas control system. When the alert gas set point is set to 90 mbar, what is that relative to in order to provide stable absolute pressure?<br>
<br>
Also, the ambient pressure readout appears to not change and is at a value of 1017.54.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Whit<br>
<br>
Whitney Armstrong<br>
Assistant Physicist<br>
Physics Division<br>
Building 203<br>
<br>
Argonne National Laboratory<br>
9700 S. Cass Ave. | Argonne, IL 60439<br>
630-252-5112 | 717-341-1080 mobile<br>
warmstrong@anl.gov<br>
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