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What amount of C4F8O gas should I get a quote on?<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/5/2018 4:51 PM, Maurizio Ungaro
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:3C234177-3C2C-413B-9C8C-87067821B2A6@jlab.org">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
Hi George,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">From Stepan’s document, the C4F8O transparency is
comparable to the C4F10’s one.</div>
<div class="">The PMTs have been coated with p-terphenyl whic
increase the response in the UV. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">It is worth investigating its price.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thanks</div>
<div class="">Mauri</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Apr 5, 2018, at 4:39 PM, George Jacobs <<a
href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> That
should read; the PMTs are not optimized for the light
produced in C4F8O gas.<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/5/2018 4:37 PM, George
Jacobs wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:5a624765-d43f-7bb8-050f-bc15c2ef6be3@jlab.org"
class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8" class="">
Hi Mauri,<br class="">
<br class="">
As far as I am aware, there is a problem using C4F8O
in the LTCC because the PMTs used are optimized for
the light produced in that gas. The wavelength of the
Cerenkov light is different for C4F8O than C4F10. The
PMTs are optimized for the light produced in C4F10.
Stepan reported this result after testing with the
C4F8O gas several years ago.<br class="">
<br class="">
F2 Chemicals is the only vendor of this gas that I am
aware of.<br class="">
My contact at F2 Chemicals was Helen McNamee <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Helen.McNamee@f2chemicals.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><Helen.McNamee@f2chemicals.com></a><br
class="">
<br class="">
Cheers,<br class="">
George<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/5/2018 2:35 PM,
Maurizio Ungaro wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:3E666003-6468-47D4-AA6E-BC5F0BC7E41C@jlab.org"
class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8" class="">
Hi George,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thanks for the detailed email. We
still need to see what is involved to have a
designed approved recovery system. Volker just
approved to start involving our designers (and
you) on this.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We also need to consider alternative
gas. Would it be possible to:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">1. Get a new quote on C4F10</div>
<div class="">2. Get a quote on C4F8O </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thanks,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Mauri</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Apr 5, 2018, at 1:53 PM,
Patrizia Rossi <<a
href="mailto:rossi@jlab.org" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">rossi@jlab.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=utf-8"
class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"
class="">Thank you George. Indeed is not a
negligible amount...<br class="">
<div apple-content-edited="true" class="">
<div style="letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">---------------------------------------------------<br
class="">
# Patrizia Rossi<br class="">
# Jefferson Lab <br class="">
# 12000 Jefferson Avenue<br class="">
# Suite 5<br class="">
# Newport News VA 23606 (USA)<br
class="">
# e-mail: <a
href="mailto:rossi@jlab.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rossi@jlab.org</a><br
class="">
# phone: +1 (757) 269 7740<br class="">
# fax: + 1 (757) 269 5800</div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
after-white-space;" class=""># cell:
+1 (757) 528 7606<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 05/apr/2018, at
13:10, George Jacobs <<a
href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=utf-8"
class="">
<div text="#000000"
bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> Hi
Patrizia,<br class="">
<br class="">
I believe the last quote was ~$140
per Kg, so 400 kg would be
~$56,000. This quote is expired. A
new quote would be required.<br
class="">
<br class="">
George<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On
4/5/2018 12:19 PM, Patrizia
Rossi wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:644AFAC5-A57B-4673-B04C-EC0C4B292182@jlab.org"
class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html;
charset=utf-8" class="">
Dear George,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">thank you very
much for your assessment
concerning the C4F10 gas
needed to run 1 or 2 LTCC
sectors in the Fall.</div>
<div class="">May you please
remind me how much 400Kg would
cost?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">thanks</div>
<div class="">patrizia</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div
apple-content-edited="true"
class="">
<div style="letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none;
white-space: normal;
widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; word-wrap:
break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;"
class="">---------------------------------------------------<br
class="">
# Patrizia Rossi<br
class="">
# Jefferson Lab <br
class="">
# 12000 Jefferson Avenue<br
class="">
# Suite 5<br class="">
# Newport News VA 23606
(USA)<br class="">
# e-mail: <a
href="mailto:rossi@jlab.org"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">rossi@jlab.org</a><br
class="">
# phone: +1 (757) 269 7740<br
class="">
# fax: + 1 (757) 269 5800</div>
<div style="letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none;
white-space: normal;
widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; word-wrap:
break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;"
class=""># cell: +1 (757)
528 7606<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite"
class="">
<div class="">On
05/apr/2018, at 12:01,
Amrit Yegneswaran <<a
href="mailto:yeg@jlab.org" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">yeg@jlab.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br
class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="font-family:
tahoma,new
york,times,serif;
font-size: 14pt;
color: #009900"
class="">
<div class="">george,<br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">good
e-mail.<br
data-mce-bogus="1"
class="">
</div>
<div class="">question
is even if we
start procurement
today will we have
the gas in time,
or will we have to
say goodbye to the
LTCC, temporarily
at least!<br
data-mce-bogus="1"
class="">
</div>
<div class="">amrit<br
data-mce-bogus="1" class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<hr id="zwchr"
data-marker="__DIVIDER__"
class="">
<div
data-marker="__HEADERS__"
class=""><b
class="">From: </b>"George
Jacobs" <<a
href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>><br
class="">
<b class="">To: </b>"Maurizio
Ungaro" <<a
href="mailto:ungaro@jlab.org"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">ungaro@jlab.org</a>>,
"Stepan Stepanyan"
<<a
href="mailto:stepanya@jlab.org"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">stepanya@jlab.org</a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc: </b>"dsg-ltcc"
<<a
href="mailto:dsg-ltcc@jlab.org"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">dsg-ltcc@jlab.org</a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Sent:
</b>Thursday,
April 5, 2018
11:53:58 AM<br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:
</b>Re: [Dsg-ltcc]
LTCC S5 test,
C4F10 usage update<br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div
data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__"
class="">Hi Mauri,<br
class="">
<br class="">
If there are plans
to run the LTCC
this Fall using
C4F10 gas, you
will need to
purchase an
additional supply
of this gas.<br
class="">
<br class="">
I estimate that
there will be
<30kg of gas
remaining in the
supply tank at the
end of this run.
This amount of gas
may not be
sufficient to
refill the S5 LTCC
prior to running
in the fall.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Assuming an
average leak rate
of 0.5 kg/day for
LTCC S5 and the 75
Kg required to
fill the sector,
with a 200 day run
time, an
additional 175 Kg
of C4F10 gas
should be
purchased in order
to operate the S5
LTCC. The start
of the procurement
process should not
be excessively
delayed due to the
potentially long
lead time.<br
class="">
<br class="">
If the run plan
includes a 2nd
LTCC sector,
additional gas
will be required.
Using the same
assumptions as for
S5, a minimum of
175kg plus a
contingency of
75kg, a total of
225kg should be
purchased for this
2nd sector. This
would bring the
total minimum
amount of gas
required to 400
kg, in order to
operate 2 LTCC
sectors for 100
days with some
small contingency
to account for a
small increase in
the detector leak
rate.<br class="">
<br class="">
If a 2nd LTCC
sector is in the
run plan, the
leakage rate of
this sector should
be minimized prior
to filling with
C4F10 gas. Using
our S5 experience
as a guide we can
assume that the S6
position will fill
and operate the
similarly if the
box is leak tight.
<br class="">
<br class="">
There is
significant
additional
complexity for the
S2-S3 location. If
we take into
account that the
"nose" area of the
LTCC box is where
the majority of
the leakage is
concentrated, we
can assume that
the S2 and S3
position may have
a larger leak rate
due to the
increased pressure
at the "nose" due
to the S2-S3
orientation. <br
class="">
<br class="">
There is also some
uncertainty as to
how efficiently
the S2-S3 volume
will fill with a
shorter vent line
due to the
increase in height
location of the
S2-S3 volumes.
Also, due to the
orientation of the
volume and
location of the
gas lines, there
will be no direct
measure of the
pressure inside
the detector
volume or fill
level associated
with it as we have
for S5 or S6.
Pressure control
may not be as
straight forward
as it is for S5.<br
class="">
<br class="">
The S2-S3 bubbler
will need to be
relocated to the
top of the fwd
carriage to become
the vent bubbler.
The vent bubbler
location for S2-S3
will require an
elevated shelf to
maximize the
separation column
height for the
C4F10 gas during
filling.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Cheers,<br
class="">
George<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div
class="moz-cite-prefix">On
3/20/2018 1:58
PM, Maurizio
Ungaro wrote:<br
class="">
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:D6E38C56-314E-41CB-B66A-7957CD306F92@jlab.org"
class="">Thanks
George, these
are all good
news.
<div class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">Indeed
we need to
address your
questions at
the end.</div>
<div class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">Mauri</div>
<div class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br
class="">
<blockquote
class="">
<div class="">On
Mar 20, 2018,
at 12:56 PM,
George Jacobs
<<a
href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org"
class=""
target="_blank"
data-mce-href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br
class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">Please
find attache
power point
update of the
C4F10 gas
usage for the
single sector
test.<br
class="">
<pre class="moz-signature">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" target="_blank" data-mce-href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a>
</pre>
</div>
<span
id="cid:ACC0A983-C502-4D61-B937-899D22CA2407@jlab.org"
class=""><LTCC
Single Sector
Test
Status-20Mar2018.pptx></span>_______________________________________________<br
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<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" target="_blank" data-mce-href="https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a>
</pre>
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<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a></pre>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a></pre>
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<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a></pre>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a></pre>
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