<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi George,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">From Stepan’s document, the C4F8O transparency is comparable to the C4F10’s one.</div><div class="">The PMTs have been coated with p-terphenyl whic increase the response in the UV. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It is worth investigating its price.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks</div><div class="">Mauri</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 5, 2018, at 4:39 PM, George Jacobs <<a href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" class="">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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charset=windows-1252" class="">
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That should read; the PMTs are not optimized for the light produced
in C4F8O gas.<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/5/2018 4:37 PM, George Jacobs
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:5a624765-d43f-7bb8-050f-bc15c2ef6be3@jlab.org" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252" class="">
Hi Mauri,<br class="">
<br class="">
As far as I am aware, there is a problem using C4F8O in the LTCC
because the PMTs used are optimized for the light produced in
that gas. The wavelength of the Cerenkov light is different for
C4F8O than C4F10. The PMTs are optimized for the light produced in
C4F10. Stepan reported this result after testing with the C4F8O
gas several years ago.<br class="">
<br class="">
F2 Chemicals is the only vendor of this gas that I am aware of.<br class="">
My contact at F2 Chemicals was Helen McNamee <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Helen.McNamee@f2chemicals.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><Helen.McNamee@f2chemicals.com></a><br class="">
<br class="">
Cheers,<br class="">
George<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/5/2018 2:35 PM, Maurizio Ungaro
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:3E666003-6468-47D4-AA6E-BC5F0BC7E41C@jlab.org" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252" class="">
Hi George,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thanks for the detailed email. We still need to
see what is involved to have a designed approved recovery
system. Volker just approved to start involving our designers
(and you) on this.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We also need to consider alternative gas. Would
it be possible to:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">1. Get a new quote on C4F10</div>
<div class="">2. Get a quote on C4F8O </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thanks,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Mauri</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Apr 5, 2018, at 1:53 PM, Patrizia Rossi
<<a href="mailto:rossi@jlab.org" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rossi@jlab.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252" class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Thank you George. Indeed is not a negligible
amount...<br class="">
<div apple-content-edited="true" class="">
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap:
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">---------------------------------------------------<br class="">
# Patrizia Rossi<br class="">
# Jefferson Lab <br class="">
# 12000 Jefferson Avenue<br class="">
# Suite 5<br class="">
# Newport News VA 23606 (USA)<br class="">
# e-mail: <a href="mailto:rossi@jlab.org" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rossi@jlab.org</a><br class="">
# phone: +1 (757) 269 7740<br class="">
# fax: + 1 (757) 269 5800</div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap:
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
after-white-space;" class=""># cell: +1 (757) 528
7606<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 05/apr/2018, at 13:10, George
Jacobs <<a href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
Hi Patrizia,<br class="">
<br class="">
I believe the last quote was ~$140 per Kg, so
400 kg would be ~$56,000. This quote is
expired. A new quote would be required.<br class="">
<br class="">
George<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/5/2018 12:19
PM, Patrizia Rossi wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:644AFAC5-A57B-4673-B04C-EC0C4B292182@jlab.org" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" class="">
Dear George,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">thank you very much for your
assessment concerning the C4F10 gas needed
to run 1 or 2 LTCC sectors in the Fall.</div>
<div class="">May you please remind me how
much 400Kg would cost?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">thanks</div>
<div class="">patrizia</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div apple-content-edited="true" class="">
<div style="letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows:
auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">---------------------------------------------------<br class="">
# Patrizia Rossi<br class="">
# Jefferson Lab <br class="">
# 12000 Jefferson Avenue<br class="">
# Suite 5<br class="">
# Newport News VA 23606 (USA)<br class="">
# e-mail: <a href="mailto:rossi@jlab.org" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rossi@jlab.org</a><br class="">
# phone: +1 (757) 269 7740<br class="">
# fax: + 1 (757) 269 5800</div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows:
auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;" class=""># cell:
+1 (757) 528 7606<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 05/apr/2018, at
12:01, Amrit Yegneswaran <<a href="mailto:yeg@jlab.org" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">yeg@jlab.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="font-family:
tahoma,new york,times,serif;
font-size: 14pt; color: #009900" class="">
<div class="">george,<br class="">
</div>
<div class="">good e-mail.<br data-mce-bogus="1" class="">
</div>
<div class="">question is even
if we start procurement today
will we have the gas in time,
or will we have to say goodbye
to the LTCC, temporarily at
least!<br data-mce-bogus="1" class="">
</div>
<div class="">amrit<br data-mce-bogus="1" class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<hr id="zwchr" data-marker="__DIVIDER__" class="">
<div data-marker="__HEADERS__" class=""><b class="">From: </b>"George
Jacobs" <<a href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">To: </b>"Maurizio
Ungaro" <<a href="mailto:ungaro@jlab.org" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ungaro@jlab.org</a>>,
"Stepan Stepanyan" <<a href="mailto:stepanya@jlab.org" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">stepanya@jlab.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Cc: </b>"dsg-ltcc"
<<a href="mailto:dsg-ltcc@jlab.org" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">dsg-ltcc@jlab.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Sent: </b>Thursday,
April 5, 2018 11:53:58 AM<br class="">
<b class="">Subject: </b>Re:
[Dsg-ltcc] LTCC S5 test, C4F10
usage update<br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__" class="">Hi Mauri,<br class="">
<br class="">
If there are plans to run the
LTCC this Fall using C4F10
gas, you will need to purchase
an additional supply of this
gas.<br class="">
<br class="">
I estimate that there will be
<30kg of gas remaining in
the supply tank at the end of
this run. This amount of gas
may not be sufficient to
refill the S5 LTCC prior to
running in the fall.<br class="">
<br class="">
Assuming an average leak rate
of 0.5 kg/day for LTCC S5 and
the 75 Kg required to fill the
sector, with a 200 day run
time, an additional 175 Kg of
C4F10 gas should be purchased
in order to operate the S5
LTCC. The start of the
procurement process should not
be excessively delayed due to
the potentially long lead
time.<br class="">
<br class="">
If the run plan includes a 2nd
LTCC sector, additional gas
will be required. Using the
same assumptions as for S5, a
minimum of 175kg plus a
contingency of 75kg, a total
of 225kg should be purchased
for this 2nd sector. This
would bring the total minimum
amount of gas required to 400
kg, in order to operate 2 LTCC
sectors for 100 days with some
small contingency to account
for a small increase in the
detector leak rate.<br class="">
<br class="">
If a 2nd LTCC sector is in the
run plan, the leakage rate of
this sector should be
minimized prior to filling
with C4F10 gas. Using our S5
experience as a guide we can
assume that the S6 position
will fill and operate the
similarly if the box is leak
tight. <br class="">
<br class="">
There is significant
additional complexity for the
S2-S3 location. If we take
into account that the "nose"
area of the LTCC box is where
the majority of the leakage is
concentrated, we can assume
that the S2 and S3 position
may have a larger leak rate
due to the increased pressure
at the "nose" due to the S2-S3
orientation. <br class="">
<br class="">
There is also some uncertainty
as to how efficiently the
S2-S3 volume will fill with a
shorter vent line due to the
increase in height location of
the S2-S3 volumes. Also, due
to the orientation of the
volume and location of the gas
lines, there will be no direct
measure of the pressure inside
the detector volume or fill
level associated with it as we
have for S5 or S6. Pressure
control may not be as straight
forward as it is for S5.<br class="">
<br class="">
The S2-S3 bubbler will need to
be relocated to the top of the
fwd carriage to become the
vent bubbler. The vent bubbler
location for S2-S3 will
require an elevated shelf to
maximize the separation column
height for the C4F10 gas
during filling.<br class="">
<br class="">
Cheers,<br class="">
George<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On
3/20/2018 1:58 PM, Maurizio
Ungaro wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:D6E38C56-314E-41CB-B66A-7957CD306F92@jlab.org" class="">Thanks George,
these are all good news.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Indeed we need
to address your questions
at the end.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Mauri</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote class="">
<div class="">On Mar
20, 2018, at 12:56
PM, George Jacobs
<<a href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" class="" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">Please
find attache power
point update of
the C4F10 gas
usage for the
single sector
test.<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" target="_blank" data-mce-href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a>
</pre>
</div>
<span id="cid:ACC0A983-C502-4D61-B937-899D22CA2407@jlab.org" class=""><LTCC
Single Sector Test
Status-20Mar2018.pptx></span>_______________________________________________<br class="">
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</blockquote>
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<br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" target="_blank" data-mce-href="https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a>
</pre>
<br class="">
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</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a></pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a></pre>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a></pre>
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