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Hi Matt,<br>
<br>
The length of tubing from the rack on the H2 Target gas pad to the
FT gas chassis is 115 ft. We will need 40 ft of NEW 1/4" SS line to
complete the connection. The distance to the MVT gas chassis should
be the same. I have 3 cylinders of 10% pre-mix left over from the
2011 experiment.<br>
<br>
George<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/14/2017 9:07 AM, George Jacobs
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:90a604fe-fe53-8bd4-7df8-e8c72efa8561@jlab.org">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
Hi Matt,<br>
<br>
The P&I only shows a single box as this was originally
designed to test the FT tracker in the hall using pre-mix. That
setup never happened. So, currently, the MVT group needs to test
the MVT detector prior to magnet insertion. This can be
accomplished using the system show on the P&I. The P&I
would only require both the FT and MVT gas distribution chassis if
both require testing or if this system were to be a temporary
supply. There are only 2-3 cylinders of premix remaining, so it
would be a short term supply.<br>
<br>
The exhaust line shown is the current one in the hall that is
shared by many systems.<br>
<br>
This is the same system as in EEL rm 124, just with longer lines.
That system was determined to be a pressure system.<br>
<br>
I will get a line length estimate for you today. The 1/4" tubing
has 0.029 wall, so the ID is 0.192.<br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
George<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/13/2017 2:49 PM, Matthew
Marchlik wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1078197907.7566486.1505328597170.JavaMail.zimbra@jlab.org">
<pre wrap="">Hi Maxime,
The system may not even qualify as a "pressure system". I'll determine the stored energy and update you. If it is deemed a PS I estimate 1-1.5 weeks to complete all the paperwork. Maybe longer if I cannot find an inspector and/or DA to sign off the technical review form in a timely manner.
Even if the system is deemed to not be a pressure system, an analysis per "Flammable Gas for Physics Experiments" supplement and an OSP are still required.
George,
Your P&ID only shows one box to represent the FT(will change to MVT). Shouldn't it be two boxes, the first is the FT supply box, second would be the FT?
Is the exhaust line shown one that is currently available or does it represent the one that is being installed for the MVT and FT exhaust?
Orifices and relief valves will most likely be required. If you need help sizing these, I can help you even if its not a PS.
I will need more system parameters to determine if the mechanical and chemical stored energy is below 1,000 ft-lb. What is the ID and total length of the 1/4 tubing? The two 1/4 in lines should combine to 1/2 in since its a long run down to the MVT supply box. What is the ID and total length of this line?
As a reminder. Anyone proficient in performing the stored energy calcs and meeting applicable requirements of the PVSSS may make the determination whether or not a system is considered a "pressure system", it doesn't require a DA.
Matt
----- Original Message -----
From: "mdefurne" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mdefurne@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><mdefurne@jlab.org></a>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dsg-mvt@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">dsg-mvt@jlab.org</a>, "Bob Miller" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rmiller@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><rmiller@jlab.org></a>, "Matthew Marchlik" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:marchlik@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><marchlik@jlab.org></a>, "George Jacobs" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><jacobsg@jlab.org></a>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 11:25:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Dsg-mvt] Mixing system
Hi George, Hi Bob, Hi Matt,
1) Can you give an estimate of how much time it takes to do the Pressure
system requirements?
2) Do we have all components in the house? If not, do we have to include
a 6-week delivery time for the components? How much would it cost?
3) Bob, can you send me the latest schedule you have for the
installation of MVT in the Hall? If the mixing system cannot be ready
for October 15th, can you give me a date on which you are absolutely
sure it will be ready to be used? November 1st?
I apologize for the many questions. But I want to be sure it is worth
spending time and money on this premix system.
Thank you for you replies,
Have a good day,
Maxime
Le 11/09/2017 à 12:48, George Jacobs a écrit :
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi Maxime,
Pre-mix supply system assembly can happen in 1-3 days after all
pressure systems requirements have been completed, as long as all
components are in house.
It's the pressure system requirements that require a long lead time.
More time is also required if we need to order anything such as
orifices or relief valves that have lead times.
George
On 9/10/2017 10:38 PM, mdefurne wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hello,
If this is the most "convenient" back-up system, then I would say go
for it. Nevertheless mixing system must be the priority. If it can be
ready by the time we move the MVT in the Hall, then let's forget
about this pre-mix gas supply.
I do not know the time scale. George, how long do you need to have
this pre-mix system ready? Matt, how long to you need to approve this
system if we need it? If you tell me X days, then let's check the
mixing system status X days before the MVT installation. If we think
the mixing system will be ready, then there will be no need to spend
time on the premix supply in the Hall.
Apparently premix bottles will not be ordered anymore. But we will
keep 2-3 of them in case the mixing system is not ready (one bottle
lasts 6 days if no leak between the detector and the bottle).
Have a good day,
Maxime
Le 08/09/2017 à 13:35, George Jacobs a écrit :
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">There was a plan earlier this year to test the FT with pre-mix, so I
produced the attached diagram for testing the FT with pre-mix in the
hall at that time. This setup uses the pre-existing lines that run
from the target gas pad to the downstream end of the space frame.
Replacing the FT chassis in the diagram with the MVT chassis is all
that is required to make it the MVT pre-mix gas supply. This setup
is quite similar to the one in EEL rm 124, but still requires a DA.
George
On 9/8/2017 12:14 PM, mdefurne wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi Marc,
Thank you for the update. Before inserting the MVT in the solenoid,
we will have to check that everything has been plugged back
properly. To do so, we will need gas.
A back-up plan will be to have the gas line ready and plug a premix
bottle on it. What is the procedure to follow to have this back up
plan ready for the MVT installation in the Hall? Unfortunately it
is necessary to prepare this back-up plan because we won t insert
the CVT in the solenoid without checking that everything is OK.
Kind Regards,
Maxime
Le 08/09/2017 à 10:09, Marc McMullen a écrit :
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi Maxime,
Currently the MVT mixing system is being evaluated by the Pressure
Systems authority and a location is being discussed by the fire
safety authority. If the location is moved outdoors, consideration
must be given for the mass flow controllers. The controllers
purchased are not specified to operate at a temperature lower than
50F.
DSG is currently looking into another option for an MFC, while
Hall B is looking into locations and climate control possibilities
for the MFCs.
With that said, Amrit and I have discussed the possibility for the
mixing system to be completed by 9/15 (possibly not even 10/15)
and we think it is not likely. George can provide further
confirmation. If it is necessary to run a premix by then, that
option needs to be expedited.
Regards,
Marc
On 9/6/2017 1:41 PM, mdefurne wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Dear George,
Will the mixing system be ready for October 1st? If not when do
you expect to have it ready?
If it is not ready before the 15th, we will absolutely need the
gas line ready so that we can plug a premix bottle to run tests:
We will not be able to enter the CVT in the solenoid if we do not
check the electronics connexion and gas lines. Indeed, once the
CVT inside the solenoid, the micromegas tiles and disks will not
be accessible anymore.
If there is any administrative paperwork to have a premix bottle
plugged on the gas line, please let me know.
Thank you,
Kind regards,
Maxime
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<pre wrap="">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:email%29jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">email)jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website)<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:email%29jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">email)jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website)<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a></pre>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a></pre>
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