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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear George,<br>
the N2 outlet on the RICH must be >= 1/2".<br>
The Nitrogen pressure in the distribution manifold must be less
than 15 psi since those parts are 3D printed parts. We do not want
to repeat the air cooling issue.<br>
<br>
I think, like you, that math is fun but the devil is in the
details... this to say that we can do all the theoretical
calculation but untill we do not do a test the math approximation
might be big.<br>
<br>
So, before drilling any hole in the RICH shell I recommend to do a
test at 40 slm with the pipe lenght and pipe crossection that is
going to be used as inlet and outlet plus the Bubbler, plastic
manifold and distribution nozzles (the ones 3D printed).<br>
If at 40 slm the 15 psi limit is exceeded than we have to use
something else compliant with the pressure code!<br>
<br>
We still have time but we need to be fast.<br>
I think Dario can help you to organize the experimental setup this
week.<br>
The overpressure in the RICH generated by the bubbler, when
completed and closed, must be less or egual to 0.5 mbar.<br>
<br>
The test must be done without the RICH shell.<br>
<br>
Many thanks for your help and collaboration<br>
<br>
Sandro<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Il 10/10/2017 15:06, George Jacobs ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:40ad56b5-2301-f6d5-311c-486f57638a7e@jlab.org">
Yes, math is fun, but the devil is in the details. <br>
<br>
More questions;<br>
What size is the N2 outlet on the RICH? Will this limit the flow
rate of the purge?<br>
What will the pressure be in the N2 distribution manifold during
this test? Will the pressure be > 15 psi? (Sound Familiar?)<br>
What differential pressure will result inside the detector volume
at 40 slm flow rate?<br>
Can a single N2 dewar supply gas at 40 slm for extended period of
time? The answer is no on this one.<br>
<br>
Good place to start,<br>
George<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/9/2017 5:25 PM, Amrit
Yegneswaran wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1819129381.4171882.1507584320381.JavaMail.zimbra@jlab.org">
<div style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size:
14pt; color: #009900">
<div>george,<br>
</div>
<div>amanda et.al are right.<br data-mce-bogus="1">
</div>
<div>thanks for the prompt response guys, the young and the
restless!<span id="transmark" style="display: none; width:
0px; height: 0px;"></span><br data-mce-bogus="1">
</div>
<div><br data-mce-bogus="1">
</div>
<div><br data-mce-bogus="1">
</div>
<div>however, i believe, we should follow the ALARA principle.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>we should shoot for less than 3ppm water molecules, this
should take ~ 24 hrs.<br data-mce-bogus="1">
</div>
<div>3ppm in 5 m^3 is ~4*10^20.<br data-mce-bogus="1">
</div>
<div>also,we should over pressure the N2 volume adequately so
there is no incoming water molecules, so that it is not
subject to ambient pressure changes. <br data-mce-bogus="1">
</div>
<div><br data-mce-bogus="1">
</div>
<div>we'll discuss these matters in the dsg meeting<br
data-mce-bogus="1">
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br data-mce-bogus="1">
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<hr id="zwchr" data-marker="__DIVIDER__">
<div data-marker="__HEADERS__"><b>From: </b>"Amanda Hoebel" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:amandah@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><amandah@jlab.org></a><br>
<b>To: </b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dsg-rich@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">dsg-rich@jlab.org</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Monday, October 9, 2017 4:00:29 PM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Dsg-rich] RICH installation activity<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__">Hi George,<br>
<br>
Tyler, Pablo, and I were looking at the calculation of
humidity decrease and found that if the total exchange rate
for both RICH channels is 40 slm and the volume of the RICH
is 5000 L then, using the exponential decay calculation, the
time to go from 50% humidity to 1% humidity is about 8
hours.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Amanda<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "George Jacobs" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><jacobsg@jlab.org></a><br>
To: "Marco Mirazita" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Marco.Mirazita@lnf.infn.it" moz-do-not-send="true"><Marco.Mirazita@lnf.infn.it></a>,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dsg-rich@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">dsg-rich@jlab.org</a>,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rich@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">rich@jlab.org</a><br>
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 11:18:32 AM<br>
Subject: Re: [Dsg-rich] RICH installation activity<br>
<br>
I have some questions and comments concerning how fast you
want to "fill" the RICH, <br>
<br>
Questions first; <br>
<br>
#1 What is the time frame you require for purging the RICH
volume from initial condition of clean room air, ~ 50%
humidity, to your final desired number? <br>
<br>
#2 What is the maximum final H2O concentration for storage
and operation? <br>
<br>
#3 What is the N2 volume of the detector? <br>
<br>
Comments; <br>
<br>
N2 gas purge supply details; <br>
- The N2 purge supply flow is controlled by a mechanical
valve rotometer, 0-20 slm <br>
- Purge flow is monitored by a mass flow transducer, 0-20
slm <br>
- The N2 purge supply valve panel is a pressure system <br>
<br>
N2 purge supply flow specifications <br>
Channel 1 maximum flow - 20 slm (1200 liters per hour/28,800
liters per day) <br>
Channel 2 maximum flow - 20 slm (1200 liters per hour/28,800
liters per day) <br>
<br>
The above maximum flow specifications remain constant with
regard to the type or source of the N2 supply. <br>
<br>
Thanks, <br>
George <br>
<br>
On 10/9/2017 10:19 AM, Marco Mirazita wrote: <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
- Nitrogen <br>
1) Setup the N2 distribution lines inside the RICH. <br>
2) The dewar is not suitable to fill the RICH quickly (i.e.
in few hours). A new system must be used, for example
bottles. This should be discussed timely with the DSG. There
is the plan to test the N2 system in the RICH for the week
of October 16. This test will include installation of the
exit panel, rotation of the RICH in vertical position,
installation of the frontal panels (possibly using the
assembly frame), sealing of the electronic panel region with
plastic. It makes sense to do all this assembly work only if
we have (or we may have) a way to fill the RICH with N2 in a
reasonable time. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
<br>
-- <br>
George Jacobs<br>
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)<br>
STE 12<br>
12000 Jefferson Ave.<br>
Newport News, VA 23606<br>
<br>
(office) 757-269-7115<br>
<br>
(cell) 757-876-0480<br>
<br>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a></pre>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Dsg-rich@jlab.org">Dsg-rich@jlab.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
-----------------------------------------
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Istituto Nazionale di Fisica Nucleare
Laboratori Nazionali di Frascati
---Research Division---
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