<html>
<head>
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">George,<br>
I checked the manifold, we need a sort of through wall connector
to attach the manifold to the wall. So the scheme might be: proper
through wall connector, manifold...<br>
<br>
Do you have any recommendation or suggestion?<br>
<br>
Thanks a lot <br>
Sandro<br>
<br>
<br>
Il 11/10/2017 16:01, George Jacobs ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:0f44568e-7a1e-d7e0-f722-c6df5d49d41b@jlab.org">
The low pressure SS through wall connector looks good. That will
allow us to connect whatever line sizes needed. It does require a
large diameter hole in the detector wall. <br>
<br>
The manifold should be commented on or approved by a DA. Will the
manifold be glued directly onto the RICH wall? Do you have a
sketch showing how it will be attached to the wall and connected
to the n2 supply line? This geometry is different than the
original design as it has the inlet and outlets at a 90 degree
angle.<br>
<br>
George<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/11/2017 9:26 AM, Marco Mirazita
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1d2c750d4dcf3e27dca8f52fa5bd9e3c@webmail.lnf.infn.it">Hi
George, <br>
to avoid all the complications that we are facing to use 3D
printed parts in the gas systems, with Sandro, Dario and
Vincenzo we found on the McMaster-Carr catologue this manyfold
with 3/8" inlet and six 1/4" outlets: <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.mcmaster.com_-235203K956&d=DwICAg&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=IDlM-Bxqk-pdsXL50fC8OA&m=r2SXbdgqQFujbIM9nAR9jTak-Rg_TjeifUwGyur_bNI&s=bEp90rm2of8vzzdwfV5i8ztRKYBbHnxqN-j6x5M0egw&e=" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.mcmaster.com_-235203K956&d=DwICAg&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=IDlM-Bxqk-pdsXL50fC8OA&m=r2SXbdgqQFujbIM9nAR9jTak-Rg_TjeifUwGyur_bNI&s=bEp90rm2of8vzzdwfV5i8ztRKYBbHnxqN-j6x5M0egw&e=</a>
<br>
We also found this <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.mcmaster.com_-236696K61&d=DwICAg&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=IDlM-Bxqk-pdsXL50fC8OA&m=r2SXbdgqQFujbIM9nAR9jTak-Rg_TjeifUwGyur_bNI&s=Q473YoKGtx_kVpjE4A0Whb-2NbfOzdquYQUIH5PRREU&e=" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.mcmaster.com_-236696K61&d=DwICAg&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=IDlM-Bxqk-pdsXL50fC8OA&m=r2SXbdgqQFujbIM9nAR9jTak-Rg_TjeifUwGyur_bNI&s=Q473YoKGtx_kVpjE4A0Whb-2NbfOzdquYQUIH5PRREU&e=</a>
that can be used for the exhaust outlet connected to the
bubbler. But maybe you already have in hand what we need. <br>
<br>
So, if there no objections, I suggest to purchase 3 pieces of
the manyfold (1 spare) and, if necessary, two pieces (1 spare)
for the exhaust connector we suggested or any other type you
think is better suited. <br>
<br>
Best regards, <br>
Marco <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Il 2017-10-10 20:25 Tomassini Sandro ha scritto: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">Dear George, <br>
the N2 outlet on the RICH must be >= 1/2". <br>
The Nitrogen pressure in the distribution manifold must be
less than <br>
15 psi since those parts are 3D printed parts. We do not want
to <br>
repeat the air cooling issue. <br>
<br>
I think, like you, that math is fun but the devil is in the <br>
details... this to say that we can do all the theoretical
calculation <br>
but untill we do not do a test the math approximation might be
big. <br>
<br>
So, before drilling any hole in the RICH shell I recommend to
do a <br>
test at 40 slm with the pipe lenght and pipe crossection that
is <br>
going to be used as inlet and outlet plus the Bubbler, plastic
<br>
manifold and distribution nozzles (the ones 3D printed). <br>
If at 40 slm the 15 psi limit is exceeded than we have to use
<br>
something else compliant with the pressure code! <br>
<br>
We still have time but we need to be fast. <br>
I think Dario can help you to organize the experimental setup
this <br>
week. <br>
The overpressure in the RICH generated by the bubbler, when
completed <br>
and closed, must be less or egual to 0.5 mbar. <br>
<br>
The test must be done without the RICH shell. <br>
<br>
Many thanks for your help and collaboration <br>
<br>
Sandro <br>
<br>
Il 10/10/2017 15:06, George Jacobs ha scritto: <br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Yes, math is fun, but the devil is in
the details. <br>
<br>
More questions; <br>
What size is the N2 outlet on the RICH? Will this limit the
flow <br>
rate of the purge? <br>
What will the pressure be in the N2 distribution manifold
during <br>
this test? Will the pressure be > 15 psi? (Sound
Familiar?) <br>
What differential pressure will result inside the detector
volume <br>
at 40 slm flow rate? <br>
Can a single N2 dewar supply gas at 40 slm for extended
period of <br>
time? The answer is no on this one. <br>
<br>
Good place to start, <br>
George <br>
<br>
On 10/9/2017 5:25 PM, Amrit Yegneswaran wrote: <br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">george, <br>
<br>
amanda et.al are right. <br>
<br>
thanks for the prompt response guys, the young and the
restless! <br>
<br>
however, i believe, we should follow the ALARA principle.
<br>
<br>
we should shoot for less than 3ppm water molecules, this
should <br>
take ~ 24 hrs. <br>
<br>
3ppm in 5 m^3 is ~4*10^20. <br>
<br>
also,we should over pressure the N2 volume adequately so
there is <br>
no incoming water molecules, so that it is not subject to
ambient <br>
pressure changes. <br>
<br>
we'll discuss these matters in the dsg meeting <br>
<br>
------------------------- <br>
<br>
FROM: "Amanda Hoebel" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:amandah@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><amandah@jlab.org></a>
<br>
TO: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dsg-rich@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">dsg-rich@jlab.org</a>
<br>
SENT: Monday, October 9, 2017 4:00:29 PM <br>
SUBJECT: Re: [Dsg-rich] RICH installation activity <br>
<br>
Hi George, <br>
<br>
Tyler, Pablo, and I were looking at the calculation of
humidity <br>
decrease and found that if the total exchange rate for
both RICH <br>
channels is 40 slm and the volume of the RICH is 5000 L
then, <br>
using the exponential decay calculation, the time to go
from 50% <br>
humidity to 1% humidity is about 8 hours. <br>
<br>
Regards, <br>
Amanda <br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- <br>
From: "George Jacobs" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><jacobsg@jlab.org></a>
<br>
To: "Marco Mirazita" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Marco.Mirazita@lnf.infn.it" moz-do-not-send="true"><Marco.Mirazita@lnf.infn.it></a>,
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dsg-rich@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">dsg-rich@jlab.org</a>,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rich@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">rich@jlab.org</a>
<br>
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 11:18:32 AM <br>
Subject: Re: [Dsg-rich] RICH installation activity <br>
<br>
I have some questions and comments concerning how fast you
want <br>
to "fill" the RICH, <br>
<br>
Questions first; <br>
<br>
#1 What is the time frame you require for purging the RICH
volume <br>
from initial condition of clean room air, ~ 50% humidity,
to your <br>
final desired number? <br>
<br>
#2 What is the maximum final H2O concentration for storage
and <br>
operation? <br>
<br>
#3 What is the N2 volume of the detector? <br>
<br>
Comments; <br>
<br>
N2 gas purge supply details; <br>
- The N2 purge supply flow is controlled by a mechanical
valve <br>
rotometer, 0-20 slm <br>
- Purge flow is monitored by a mass flow transducer, 0-20
slm <br>
- The N2 purge supply valve panel is a pressure system <br>
<br>
N2 purge supply flow specifications <br>
Channel 1 maximum flow - 20 slm (1200 liters per
hour/28,800 <br>
liters per day) <br>
Channel 2 maximum flow - 20 slm (1200 liters per
hour/28,800 <br>
liters per day) <br>
<br>
The above maximum flow specifications remain constant with
regard <br>
to the type or source of the N2 supply. <br>
<br>
Thanks, <br>
George <br>
<br>
On 10/9/2017 10:19 AM, Marco Mirazita wrote: <br>
<br>
- Nitrogen <br>
1) Setup the N2 distribution lines inside the RICH. <br>
2) The dewar is not suitable to fill the RICH quickly
(i.e. in <br>
few hours). A new system must be used, for example
bottles. This <br>
should be discussed timely with the DSG. There is the plan
to test <br>
the N2 system in the RICH for the week of October 16. This
test <br>
will include installation of the exit panel, rotation of
the RICH <br>
in vertical position, installation of the frontal panels
(possibly <br>
using the assembly frame), sealing of the electronic panel
region <br>
with plastic. It makes sense to do all this assembly work
only if <br>
we have (or we may have) a way to fill the RICH with N2 in
a <br>
reasonable time. <br>
<br>
_______________________________________________ <br>
Dsg-rich mailing list <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Dsg-rich@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Dsg-rich@jlab.org</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich</a>
[1] <br>
<br>
-- <br>
George Jacobs <br>
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF) <br>
STE 12 <br>
12000 Jefferson Ave. <br>
Newport News, VA 23606 <br>
<br>
(office) 757-269-7115 <br>
<br>
(cell) 757-876-0480 <br>
<br>
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a>
[2] <br>
<br>
_______________________________________________ <br>
Dsg-rich mailing list <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Dsg-rich@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Dsg-rich@jlab.org</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich</a>
[1] <br>
_______________________________________________ <br>
Dsg-rich mailing list <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Dsg-rich@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Dsg-rich@jlab.org</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich</a>
[1] <br>
<br>
_______________________________________________ <br>
Dsg-rich mailing list <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Dsg-rich@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Dsg-rich@jlab.org</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich</a>
[1] <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
-- <br>
George Jacobs <br>
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF) <br>
STE 12 <br>
12000 Jefferson Ave. <br>
Newport News, VA 23606 <br>
<br>
(office) 757-269-7115 <br>
<br>
(cell) 757-876-0480 <br>
<br>
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
<br>
<br>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a>
[2] <br>
<br>
_______________________________________________ <br>
Dsg-rich mailing list <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Dsg-rich@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Dsg-rich@jlab.org</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich</a>
[1] <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
-- <br>
----------------------------------------- <br>
Dr. Eng. Sandro Tomassini <br>
Istituto Nazionale di Fisica Nucleare <br>
Laboratori Nazionali di Frascati <br>
---Research Division--- <br>
P.O.Box 13 00044 Frascati (RM) Italy <br>
Tel. office: +39 06 9403 2919/8089 <br>
Fax: +39 06 94032256 <br>
e-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sandro.tomassini@lnf.infn.it" moz-do-not-send="true">sandro.tomassini@lnf.infn.it</a> <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lnf.infn.it_&d=DwICAg&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=IDlM-Bxqk-pdsXL50fC8OA&m=r2SXbdgqQFujbIM9nAR9jTak-Rg_TjeifUwGyur_bNI&s=43M8LCVE5R9mKgYHG1FFF6zw1oGVnGi9RVc9URWWmvE&e=" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lnf.infn.it_&d=DwICAg&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=IDlM-Bxqk-pdsXL50fC8OA&m=r2SXbdgqQFujbIM9nAR9jTak-Rg_TjeifUwGyur_bNI&s=43M8LCVE5R9mKgYHG1FFF6zw1oGVnGi9RVc9URWWmvE&e=</a>
[3] <br>
----------------------------------------- <br>
-- <br>
<br>
<br>
Links: <br>
------ <br>
[1] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich</a>
<br>
[2] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg</a>
<br>
[3] <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lnf.infn.it_&d=DwMDaQ&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=9YtCiIg5kE6YCo5iFAyFiMgzNCONVcBowotEOgGZ4Co&m=UY18sXDOvWTNMoajC7wzqIhz7rh16-biQC3z6ka-_TY&s=tRArvQj9jCO4_A9f2vkYZY99yYrXrbRaWYWTu_RwRys&e=" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lnf.infn.it_&d=DwMDaQ&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=9YtCiIg5kE6YCo5iFAyFiMgzNCONVcBowotEOgGZ4Co&m=UY18sXDOvWTNMoajC7wzqIhz7rh16-biQC3z6ka-_TY&s=tRArvQj9jCO4_A9f2vkYZY99yYrXrbRaWYWTu_RwRys&e=</a>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________ <br>
Dsg-rich mailing list <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Dsg-rich@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Dsg-rich@jlab.org</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich</a>
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
-----------------------------------------
Dr. Eng. Sandro Tomassini
Istituto Nazionale di Fisica Nucleare
Laboratori Nazionali di Frascati
---Research Division---
P.O.Box 13 00044 Frascati (RM) Italy
Tel. office: +39 06 9403 2919/8089
Fax: +39 06 94032256
e-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sandro.tomassini@lnf.infn.it">sandro.tomassini@lnf.infn.it</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lnf.infn.it_&d=DwMDaQ&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=9YtCiIg5kE6YCo5iFAyFiMgzNCONVcBowotEOgGZ4Co&m=JjNka-ODyPUFqlwGBDtz2zTGiGcjqrj1pVmIGt25J6I&s=zINLsWWMUMwTHfrDVat9CzsovtKL6SRLpUv5Vkb9v0U&e=">http://www.lnf.infn.it/</a>
-----------------------------------------
-- </pre>
</body>
</html>