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Hi Valery,<br>
<br>
Have you looked at this scenario? Fan stops running during run. This
would result in an increased pressure in the electronics box. The
increased pressure increases the leak rate of cooling air into the
RICH detector volume. Depending on the severity of the leak,
pressure in the RICH gas volume may increase until the cooling
system is turned off. The O2 concentration will increase until the
cooling flow stops. The O2 contamination then absorbs the light
until it is removed via N2 purge. <br>
<br>
There is, of course, a worse case scenario, depending on how high
the pressure in the electronics box goes. Since final pressure is
unknown, it may or may not be a realistic failure mode.<br>
<br>
So, perhaps a good question to answer would be; What are the
advantages of using the fan vs consequences of fan failure. Is
adding a fan a good solution to your problem or does it potentially
create another problem?<br>
<br>
George<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/17/2017 6:25 PM, Valery
Kubarovsky wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1153823874.2051.1508279144281.JavaMail.zimbra@jlab.org">
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:
12pt; color: #000000">
<div>Hi George,</div>
<div>Thank you for looking to all these issues. I agree that we
have to determine the exact location of these fans in the
Hall-B and determine the change in the length of the exhaust
tubes.</div>
<div><br data-mce-bogus="1">
</div>
<div>And sure we will test the <span style="color: rgb(0, 0,
0); font-family: -webkit-standard; font-size:
16.520000457763672px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); display: inline !important; float: none;"
data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family:
-webkit-standard; font-size: 16.520000457763672px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; background-color: #ffffff; display: inline !important;
float: none;">exhaust line pressure when the fans will be on
and off.</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
-webkit-standard; font-size: 16.520000457763672px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline
!important; float: none;" data-mce-style="color: #000000;
font-family: -webkit-standard; font-size:
16.520000457763672px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;
display: inline !important; float: none;"><br
data-mce-bogus="1">
</span></div>
<div><font size="3" face="-webkit-standard">In any case the cRio
interlock will monitor the temperature inside the electronic
panel and will shut down the detecter in case of
accident with exhaust fans.</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you again,</div>
<div>Valery</div>
<div><br data-mce-bogus="1">
</div>
<div><br data-mce-bogus="1">
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<hr id="zwchr" data-marker="__DIVIDER__">
<div data-marker="__HEADERS__">
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid
#1010FF;margin-left:5px;padding-left:5px;color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;"
data-mce-style="border-left: 2px solid #1010FF; margin-left:
5px; padding-left: 5px; color: #000; font-weight: normal;
font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family:
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><b>From: </b>"George
Jacobs" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org"><jacobsg@jlab.org></a><br>
<b>To: </b>"Valery Kubarovsky" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:vpk@jlab.org"><vpk@jlab.org></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"Tyler Lemon" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tlemon@jlab.org"><tlemon@jlab.org></a>,
"dsg-rich" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dsg-rich@jlab.org"><dsg-rich@jlab.org></a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, October 17, 2017 5:31:52 PM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Dsg-rich] MVT exhaust fan in EEL 124<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__">
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid
#1010FF;margin-left:5px;padding-left:5px;color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;"
data-mce-style="border-left: 2px solid #1010FF; margin-left:
5px; padding-left: 5px; color: #000; font-weight: normal;
font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family:
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Hi Valery,<br>
<br>
Have you taken into account the length of the hose or tubing
that must be added in order to attach the fan to the
detector? If the overall line length must be doubled or
tripled to reach the fan, the flow restriction from the
tubing will also double or triple.<br>
<br>
If the fan stops running, the fan blades will restrict the
gas flow at some level. Flowing gas has velocity and
momentum, fan blades will require the gas change direction,
loosing momentum and velocity. <br>
<br>
So, there will be additional flow restriction and it will
increase the cooling air pressure in the electronics box in
the case of fan failure. The added restriction due to the
additional lengths of tubing or hose can be calculated. The
additional restriction created by the fan blades can be
physically tested by turning off the fan and monitoring the
change in the exhaust line pressure.<br>
<br>
George<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/17/2017 4:27 PM, Valery
Kubarovsky wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:494352099.5668846.1508272051201.JavaMail.zimbra@jlab.org">
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: #000000"
data-mce-style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: #000000;">
<div>George,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>First we want to test it at the cleaning room to
measure the effectiveness of these fans.</div>
<div>And later on we will use it in the hall. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The design of the cooling system was done without
exhaust fans. In case of the power failure nothing
will happen with the pressure system. The fan has much
bigger diameter than our tubes and by this reason will
not block the air flow. It is completely open.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Valery</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<hr id="zwchr">
<div>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid
#1010FF;margin-left:5px;padding-left:5px;color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;"
data-mce-style="border-left: 2px solid#1010FF;
margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px; color: #000;
font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;
text-decoration: none; font-family:
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><b>From:
</b>"George Jacobs" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" target="_blank"
data-mce-href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><jacobsg@jlab.org></a><br>
<b>To: </b>"Tyler Lemon" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:tlemon@jlab.org" target="_blank"
data-mce-href="mailto:tlemon@jlab.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><tlemon@jlab.org></a>,
"dsg-rich" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:dsg-rich@jlab.org" target="_blank"
data-mce-href="mailto:dsg-rich@jlab.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><dsg-rich@jlab.org></a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, October 17, 2017 1:20:12 PM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Dsg-rich] MVT exhaust fan in
EEL 124<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid
#1010FF;margin-left:5px;padding-left:5px;color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;"
data-mce-style="border-left: 2px solid#1010FF;
margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px; color: #000;
font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;
text-decoration: none; font-family:
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Would
this setup be used only in the clean room for
testing or would this be for use in the hall during
normal operations?<br>
<br>
If the answer is the latter, what would happen to
air cooling flow and pressure if the power to the
fans tripped off during a run? <br>
<br>
George<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/17/2017 11:56 AM,
Tyler Lemon wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1154990717.5595054.1508255789019.JavaMail.zimbra@jlab.org">
<div style="font-family: times new roman,new
york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt; color:
#000000" data-mce-style="font-family: times new
roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;
color: #000000;">
<div>Hello Valery,<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Attached is the photo of the MVT exhaust
fan in use in EEL 124.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Would there be a possibility that RICH
would use similar fans to pull out the hot air
from the electronic panel?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards,<br>
</div>
<div>Tyler<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
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<br>
<pre class="moz-signature">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" target="_blank" data-mce-href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a></pre>
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href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich"
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<br>
<pre class="moz-signature">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg" target="_blank" data-mce-href="https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a></pre>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606
(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jacobsg@jlab.org">jacobsg@jlab.org</a>
(website) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg">https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg</a></pre>
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