[Erd108] [External] RE: [External] RE: [External] Re: [External] eRD108 weekly meeting - Thursday 09/14 at 9 am

Fri Sep 15 17:47:53 EDT 2023

Hi Matt,
Thanks for sending these slides out. My very first comment is on presentation.
Please make label and legend larger font. Right now it is impossible to read them and your slides are full of empty spaces so you could also make the plot bigger

Thanks
Kondo

From: Matthew Posik <posik at temple.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 5:17 PM
To: Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <kg6cq at virginia.edu>; Marcus Hohlmann <hohlmann at fit.edu>; BOSSU Francesco <francesco.bossu at cea.fr>; Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org>; erd108 at jlab.org
Cc: Azmoun, Bob <azmoun at bnl.gov>; Huong Nguyen <htn3r.uva at gmail.com>; Nikolai Smirnov <nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Erd108] [External] RE: [External] RE: [External] Re: [External] eRD108 weekly meeting - Thursday 09/14 at 9 am

Hi All,

I you can find a rough draft of the slides that I am planning on presenting at Monday's TIC meeting regarding the spatial resolution needed for the outer MPGD layer to meet the 1 mrad angular resolution of the PID group. Please let me know if you have any comments.

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.dropbox.com_scl_fi_1zhb6jfnhschzgqz7svok_TIC-5FAngleRes-5F09182023.pdf-3Frlkey-3Ddnblu673cycnpeftcs8z9gvn5-26dl-3D0&d=DwIGaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=6nBhCQ9asnI7Gb72jBWQ4g&m=y4v6Z4bkFM1y4aESOyvvXSF4AZaDlidF5BT2AugItXWmMiywCYtiCuYy1NXuytKQ&s=W-6rqI3YxBmQvtbKzUBfLgJp3ZaIEUxVdWa7sNxSSTY&e= 

Thanks,
Matt

Matt Posik
Research Associate Professor

Temple University
Department of Physics
SERC
1925 N. 12th St.
Philadelphia, PA 19122
USA

TU Office: SERC Room 451

Physics Office: SERC Room 406/4th Floor
________________________________
From: Erd108 <erd108-bounces at jlab.org<mailto:erd108-bounces at jlab.org>> on behalf of Matthew Posik <posik at temple.edu<mailto:posik at temple.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 5:46 PM
To: Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <kg6cq at virginia.edu<mailto:kg6cq at virginia.edu>>; Marcus Hohlmann <hohlmann at fit.edu<mailto:hohlmann at fit.edu>>; BOSSU Francesco <francesco.bossu at cea.fr<mailto:francesco.bossu at cea.fr>>; Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org<mailto:kagnanvo at jlab.org>>; erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org> <erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org>>
Cc: Azmoun, Bob <azmoun at bnl.gov<mailto:azmoun at bnl.gov>>; Huong Nguyen <htn3r.uva at gmail.com<mailto:htn3r.uva at gmail.com>>; Nikolai Smirnov <nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu<mailto:nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Erd108] [External] RE: [External] RE: [External] Re: [External] eRD108 weekly meeting - Thursday 09/14 at 9 am

Hi Kondo,

Yes, lack of sleep = 🤪

I uploaded the pdf version to indico. Yes, you are correct going down to 5um resolution on the outer MPGD barrel I see no improvement on the angular resolution, but I do see an effect on the momentum resolution (slide 29).

I am taking the material X0 of our tracking configuration and calculating the multiple scattering theta_0 formula from PDG to see where that value sits relative to say the second method that I discuss where I looked at the track direction uncertainties. I should have that calculated tomorrow and will pass it around.

Thanks,
Matt

Matt Posik
Research Associate Professor

Temple University
Department of Physics
SERC
1925 N. 12th St.
Philadelphia, PA 19122
USA

TU Office: SERC Room 451

Physics Office: SERC Room 406/4th Floor

________________________________
From: Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <kg6cq at virginia.edu<mailto:kg6cq at virginia.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 5:13 PM
To: Matthew Posik <posik at temple.edu<mailto:posik at temple.edu>>; Marcus Hohlmann <hohlmann at fit.edu<mailto:hohlmann at fit.edu>>; BOSSU Francesco <francesco.bossu at cea.fr<mailto:francesco.bossu at cea.fr>>; Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org<mailto:kagnanvo at jlab.org>>; erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org> <erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org>>
Cc: Azmoun, Bob <azmoun at bnl.gov<mailto:azmoun at bnl.gov>>; Huong Nguyen <htn3r.uva at gmail.com<mailto:htn3r.uva at gmail.com>>; Nikolai Smirnov <nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu<mailto:nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu>>
Subject: [External] RE: [Erd108] [External] RE: [External] Re: [External] eRD108 weekly meeting - Thursday 09/14 at 9 am

Hi Matt,

Thanks for solving the mystery.

Could you please also post the pdf version of your slides on the indico? (pdf instead of pptx to avoid the rotated figure …)

Am I right to deduce from your slide no6 that even with a detector that has 5 um spatial resolution you don’t see any effect improvement of the angular resolution compared to 1 mm resolution?

If so, is every one comfortable with that conclusion?

Best regards

Kondo

From: Erd108 <erd108-bounces at jlab.org<mailto:erd108-bounces at jlab.org>> On Behalf Of Matthew Posik
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 2:18 PM
To: Marcus Hohlmann <hohlmann at fit.edu<mailto:hohlmann at fit.edu>>; BOSSU Francesco <francesco.bossu at cea.fr<mailto:francesco.bossu at cea.fr>>; Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org<mailto:kagnanvo at jlab.org>>; erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org>
Cc: Azmoun, Bob <azmoun at bnl.gov<mailto:azmoun at bnl.gov>>; Huong Nguyen <htn3r.uva at gmail.com<mailto:htn3r.uva at gmail.com>>; Nikolai Smirnov <nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu<mailto:nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Erd108] [External] RE: [External] Re: [External] eRD108 weekly meeting - Thursday 09/14 at 9 am

Hi Marcus,

Yes, the majority of the hits appear in the center of the drift volume. For the inner MPGD, since it is truly curved plotting the radius vs z should be fine, so what I see in the left-hand plot (note the vertical scale) on slide 1 is what I was expecting to see: a 3mm sensitive area with majority of the hits at the center. But for completeness slide 4 shows the x vs y hits for the inner MPGD.

Thanks,
Matt

Matt Posik

Research Associate Professor

Temple University

Department of Physics

SERC

1925 N. 12th St.

Philadelphia, PA 19122

USA

TU Office: SERC Room 451

Physics Office: SERC Room 406/4th Floor

________________________________

From: Marcus Hohlmann <hohlmann at fit.edu<mailto:hohlmann at fit.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 1:18 PM
To: Matthew Posik <posik at temple.edu<mailto:posik at temple.edu>>; BOSSU Francesco <francesco.bossu at cea.fr<mailto:francesco.bossu at cea.fr>>; Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org<mailto:kagnanvo at jlab.org>>; erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org> <erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org>>
Cc: Azmoun, Bob <azmoun at bnl.gov<mailto:azmoun at bnl.gov>>; Huong Nguyen <htn3r.uva at gmail.com<mailto:htn3r.uva at gmail.com>>; Nikolai Smirnov <nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu<mailto:nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu>>
Subject: [External] RE: [Erd108] [External] Re: [External] eRD108 weekly meeting - Thursday 09/14 at 9 am

Very interesting, Matt. That looks a lot better.

Do most of the hits appear in the center of the drift gap? Also, what about the inner MPGD? Did you fix a similar bug there?

Thanks,

Marcus

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prof. Marcus Hohlmann                           Email: hohlmann at fit.edu<mailto:hohlmann at fit.edu>
Dept. of Aerospace, Physics & Space Sciences    Phone: +1 (321) 674-7275
F.W. Olin Physical Science Building             Fax  : +1 (321) 674-7482
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Melbourne, FL 32901  USA                             HEP Research Group<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__research.fit.edu_hep_hohlmann-2Dresearch-2Dgroup_&d=DwMF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=6nBhCQ9asnI7Gb72jBWQ4g&m=8Sa0-Bif5chnI7F6kxuk3w7tKJrP7BhNaVPfdLrn_4E-PQ0Kd2ywosZU8oJ1b5Jy&s=Pe84-Oxsnnf_rAhCoraZlOrQ-khbkNu9THKrQ3Rr6i0&e=>

From: Erd108 <erd108-bounces at jlab.org<mailto:erd108-bounces at jlab.org>> On Behalf Of Matthew Posik
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 12:28 PM
To: BOSSU Francesco <francesco.bossu at cea.fr<mailto:francesco.bossu at cea.fr>>; Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org<mailto:kagnanvo at jlab.org>>; erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org>
Cc: Azmoun, Bob <azmoun at bnl.gov<mailto:azmoun at bnl.gov>>; Huong Nguyen <htn3r.uva at gmail.com<mailto:htn3r.uva at gmail.com>>; Nikolai Smirnov <nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu<mailto:nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Erd108] [External] Re: [External] eRD108 weekly meeting - Thursday 09/14 at 9 am

Hi All,

The bug I reported in today's meeting regarding the angular resolution studies, turns out I just stupidly plotted the wrong quantity on slide one. I was plotting the radial values of the outer MPGD hits, but this outer layer is a planar tracker. Slides 2 and 3, I now plot outer MPGD x vs y hits and things look as I was expecting them to, where the sensitive volumes correspond to the 3mm drift gap. So, there should be no bug in the analysis presented, just an early morning plotting mistake.

Updated slides: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.dropbox.com_scl_fi_tloqqk0rpzmoa3102jjt1_09-2D07-2D23-2DeRD108-2DAngleResolution.pptx-3Frlkey-3Dnexxuzwrfw6x9z8h4ldaz2676-26dl-3D0&d=DwIGaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=6nBhCQ9asnI7Gb72jBWQ4g&m=y4v6Z4bkFM1y4aESOyvvXSF4AZaDlidF5BT2AugItXWmMiywCYtiCuYy1NXuytKQ&s=s3FdA3Q6KjIohNzoysisEL9GCvJvImreCpzg51rWUD8&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.dropbox.com_scl_fi_tloqqk0rpzmoa3102jjt1_09-2D07-2D23-2DeRD108-2DAngleResolution.pptx-3Frlkey-3Dnexxuzwrfw6x9z8h4ldaz2676-26dl-3D0&d=DwMF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=6nBhCQ9asnI7Gb72jBWQ4g&m=92D7zMPeqU7fT5ezHDQFgHd5S9qPbmSf1HDV7WnYw-bkJ0zNR6yT778MKczPKA1V&s=MQGiKWuN9dbYDHhkylDh1cWtjyrg_y-g4xM2RbvEdC4&e=>

Our discussion today was good and I have a few items to investigate:

  1.  What happens if we take the outer MPGD out of the track reconstruction
  2.  What happens to the angular resolution if the outer MPGD is removed from the simulation (material and all) --> need new material map
  3.  Modifying the 3mm DIRC space point used as the "true" hit value in the first angular resolution method

Additionally, I will follow up with software experts on how to:

  1.  Assess GEANT information and possible adjust parameters such as the step size and how GEANT output propagates into dd4hep output
  2.  How to best collect ionizations per track in the gas volume and have their average position be outputed as the hit, which will then enter a digitization stage and then used in the track reconstruction.

Any additional comments or suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks,

Matt

Matt Posik

Research Associate Professor

Temple University

Department of Physics

SERC

1925 N. 12th St.

Philadelphia, PA 19122

USA

TU Office: SERC Room 451

Physics Office: SERC Room 406/4th Floor

________________________________

From: BOSSU Francesco <francesco.bossu at cea.fr<mailto:francesco.bossu at cea.fr>>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 8:59 AM
To: Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org<mailto:kagnanvo at jlab.org>>; Matthew Posik <posik at temple.edu<mailto:posik at temple.edu>>; erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org> <erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org>>
Cc: Azmoun, Bob <azmoun at bnl.gov<mailto:azmoun at bnl.gov>>; Huong Nguyen <htn3r.uva at gmail.com<mailto:htn3r.uva at gmail.com>>; Nikolai Smirnov <nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu<mailto:nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu>>
Subject: [External] Re: [Erd108] [External] eRD108 weekly meeting - Thursday 09/14 at 9 am

Hi Kondo

I'm sorry, I won't be able to attend today

Francesco

________________________________

From: Erd108 <erd108-bounces at jlab.org<mailto:erd108-bounces at jlab.org>> on behalf of Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org<mailto:kagnanvo at jlab.org>>
Sent: 14 September 2023 00:20:49
To: Matthew Posik; erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org>
Cc: Azmoun, Bob; Huong Nguyen; Nikolai Smirnov
Subject: Re: [Erd108] [External] eRD108 weekly meeting - Thursday 09/14 at 9 am

Ok, great.

I will put you first in the agenda

Kondo

From: Matthew Posik <posik at temple.edu<mailto:posik at temple.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 6:14 PM
To: Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org<mailto:kagnanvo at jlab.org>>; erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org>
Cc: Azmoun, Bob <azmoun at bnl.gov<mailto:azmoun at bnl.gov>>; Huong Nguyen <htn3r.uva at gmail.com<mailto:htn3r.uva at gmail.com>>; Nikolai Smirnov <nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu<mailto:nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [External] [Erd108] eRD108 weekly meeting - Thursday 09/14 at 9 am

Hi Kondo,

I would like to give an update on what has been done so far in studying how the outer mpgd barrel layer spatial resolution affects the angular resolutions. I was also asked to provide an update on this at Monday's TIC meeting.

Thanks,

Matt

________________________________

From: Erd108 <erd108-bounces at jlab.org<mailto:erd108-bounces at jlab.org>> on behalf of Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org<mailto:kagnanvo at jlab.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 5:59:49 PM
To: erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org> <erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org>>
Cc: Azmoun, Bob <azmoun at bnl.gov<mailto:azmoun at bnl.gov>>; Huong Nguyen <htn3r.uva at gmail.com<mailto:htn3r.uva at gmail.com>>; Nikolai Smirnov <nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu<mailto:nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu>>
Subject: [External] [Erd108] eRD108 weekly meeting - Thursday 09/14 at 9 am

Dear all,

We will have our regular eRD108 meeting tomorrow 09/14 at 9 am

I don’t have any thing special on the agenda other than

  *   a scheduled meeting in the afternoon tomorrow with the Bryan Eng, Elke etc .. to discuss design issue ==> everyone is free to join the discussion
  *   I am ask to give an update on Thin Gap MPGD at the TIC meeting on Monday 18

See meeting details below:

Wiki : https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__wiki.bnl.gov_eic_index.php_Eic-2Drd-2Dmeeting&d=DwIGaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=6nBhCQ9asnI7Gb72jBWQ4g&m=y4v6Z4bkFM1y4aESOyvvXSF4AZaDlidF5BT2AugItXWmMiywCYtiCuYy1NXuytKQ&s=KEFvd-gIoemqCEdZa33fsSeD5QvJyGWHWuSXs9zFCjY&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__wiki.bnl.gov_eic_index.php_Eic-2Drd-2Dmeeting&d=DwMF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=8RkWGK8Ehr23aQ4XZaeJkKhdeUjRK7rjlS9Ivaen0wM&m=1b60EvIEaDvwTCvFf25-XYFEH-6TtrsakUczEQkJFo2wqYyMqTxJi5mBJqGE2JM2&s=OWNZa9_ThoMFROSsixjNDp5kv_WQ-6n7tyLlGdqzemk&e=>

Indico: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__indico.bnl.gov_event_20580_&d=DwIGaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=6nBhCQ9asnI7Gb72jBWQ4g&m=y4v6Z4bkFM1y4aESOyvvXSF4AZaDlidF5BT2AugItXWmMiywCYtiCuYy1NXuytKQ&s=EpT2x-9tBRrFQgmal1JwUh3hisRBqrdL-W3JcvZiFJ4&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__indico.bnl.gov_event_20580_&d=DwMF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=8RkWGK8Ehr23aQ4XZaeJkKhdeUjRK7rjlS9Ivaen0wM&m=1b60EvIEaDvwTCvFf25-XYFEH-6TtrsakUczEQkJFo2wqYyMqTxJi5mBJqGE2JM2&s=3xnege3c7xjw1xHsAEVLVxu8fXIPDV6MQH6iNgN4l6M&e=>

Zoom: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__virginia.zoom.us_j_91920338307-3Fpwd-3DTEF3VDhlVUN0UnBIY0xkeWxqMXprQT09&d=DwIGaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=6nBhCQ9asnI7Gb72jBWQ4g&m=y4v6Z4bkFM1y4aESOyvvXSF4AZaDlidF5BT2AugItXWmMiywCYtiCuYy1NXuytKQ&s=xWV6KZ-ycyCehZ51_ME-MWE2cuCfV7eh7IBtYxXgMPs&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__virginia.zoom.us_j_91920338307-3Fpwd-3DTEF3VDhlVUN0UnBIY0xkeWxqMXprQT09&d=DwMF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=8RkWGK8Ehr23aQ4XZaeJkKhdeUjRK7rjlS9Ivaen0wM&m=1b60EvIEaDvwTCvFf25-XYFEH-6TtrsakUczEQkJFo2wqYyMqTxJi5mBJqGE2JM2&s=C9b2ytJ4yAXLqfXRg_BiB6CcQAuzMbdaL9NQNiVwZNU&e=>

Best regards

Kondo
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