[Erd108] [External] Re: Additional simulation request

Wed Jul 17 11:25:41 EDT 2024

Dear Matt and Sourav,

The idea of Matt of the formation of fast tracklets can help there. As I
understand, it may help but will need to do some studies.

Regards,
Shyam

On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 5:20 PM Sourav Tarafdar <stara at jlab.org> wrote:

> Sure, I don't care about MPGD resolution. I wanted to stop the discussion
> of ToF going to 5% to further degrade the angular resolution from current
> ~ 3.5 mrad and effectively making DIRC useless in low momentum region.
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Erd108 <erd108-bounces at jlab.org> on behalf of Matthew Posik <
> posik at temple.edu>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 17, 2024 11:13 AM
> *To:* Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org>; Sourav Tarafdar <stara at jlab.org>;
> Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <kg6cq at virginia.edu>; erd108 at jlab.org <
> erd108 at jlab.org>; Shyam Kumar <shyam055119 at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Erd108] [External] Re: Additional simulation request
>
> Hi All,
>
> Kondo is correct, the MPGD resolution does not help DIRC PID due to
> multiple scattering of the inner layers, even when the MPGD resolution is
> 50um.  Adding the CF support just worsens the resolutions. Additional
> material will further worsen the angular performance.
>
> Thanks,
> Matt
>
> Matt Posik
> Research Associate Professor
>
> Temple University
> Department of Physics
> SERC
> 1925 N. 12th St.
> Philadelphia, PA 19122
> USA
>
> TU Office: SERC Room 451
>
>
> Physics Office: SERC Room 406/4th Floor
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Erd108 <erd108-bounces at jlab.org> on behalf of Kondo Gnanvo <
> kagnanvo at jlab.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 17, 2024 10:39 AM
> *To:* Sourav Tarafdar <stara at jlab.org>; Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <
> kg6cq at virginia.edu>; erd108 at jlab.org <erd108 at jlab.org>; Shyam Kumar <
> shyam055119 at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* [External] Re: [Erd108] Additional simulation request
>
> Hi Sourav
> Ok, i will let Matt comment. My main point is whether good spatial
> resolution MPGD helps achieving the angular resolution requirements at the
> DIRC. It looks like even before including the CF material, we could not
> satisfy this requirement even with a 50um MPGD, so
>
>    - MPGD resolution does not help because multiple scattering of the
>    inner layers is dominant factor
>    - 0.5 mrad angular resolution requirements not met even before
>    considering CF support structure
>
> Maybe I am wrong though!
> Best regards
> Kondo
>
> Get Outlook for iOS
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_o0ukef&d=DwMF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=6nBhCQ9asnI7Gb72jBWQ4g&m=Z-rq14gh7Ttjl13bSSNowA51bG3bP9gYNSuO81dopADCTe22ggs-J-ULDN3iDrS8&s=kbTZMwFJyYZeS2fN3W3o1Z9pCSfmXtcmqXoRY937XgA&e=>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Sourav Tarafdar <stara at jlab.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 17, 2024 10:27:32 AM
> *To:* Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org>; Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <
> kg6cq at virginia.edu>; erd108 at jlab.org <erd108 at jlab.org>; Shyam Kumar <
> shyam055119 at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Additional simulation request
>
> Hi Kondo,
>
> Just during Monday simulation meeting Matt showed series of studies. Slide
> 15 in Matt's presentation concludes the effect of CF affects the angular
> resolution significantly, if I am not mistaken in final conclusion during
> that presentation ?
>
> Regards,
> Sourav
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Erd108 <erd108-bounces at jlab.org> on behalf of Kondo Gnanvo <
> kagnanvo at jlab.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 17, 2024 10:23 AM
> *To:* Sourav Tarafdar <stara at jlab.org>; Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <
> kg6cq at virginia.edu>; erd108 at jlab.org <erd108 at jlab.org>; Shyam Kumar <
> shyam055119 at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Erd108] Additional simulation request
>
> Hi Sourav,
> The spatial resolution was already irrelevant even before considering the
> CF material if i remember well from past studies.
> I don’t remember a simulation study that ever show any impact of MPGD
> resolution on the angular resolution at the DIRC level
> Best regards
> Kondo
>
> Get Outlook for iOS
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_o0ukef&d=DwMF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=6nBhCQ9asnI7Gb72jBWQ4g&m=Z-rq14gh7Ttjl13bSSNowA51bG3bP9gYNSuO81dopADCTe22ggs-J-ULDN3iDrS8&s=kbTZMwFJyYZeS2fN3W3o1Z9pCSfmXtcmqXoRY937XgA&e=>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Erd108 <erd108-bounces at jlab.org> on behalf of Sourav Tarafdar <
> stara at jlab.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 17, 2024 10:11:36 AM
> *To:* Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <kg6cq at virginia.edu>; erd108 at jlab.org <
> erd108 at jlab.org>; Shyam Kumar <shyam055119 at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Erd108] Additional simulation request
>
> Hi Kondo,
>
> I thought it was 3% Carbon fiber support structure causing multiple
> scattering which was basically making spatial resolution of MPGD irrelevant
> ?
>
> Regards,
> Sourav
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <kg6cq at virginia.edu>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 17, 2024 10:07 AM
> *To:* Sourav Tarafdar <stara at jlab.org>; erd108 at jlab.org <erd108 at jlab.org>;
> Shyam Kumar <shyam055119 at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] RE: Additional simulation request
>
>
> Hi Sourav,
>
> It looks like the material budget already the dominant parameter for the
> angular resolution study at the DIRC level so it seems very unlikely that
> there would be any difference between 1% and 5% for the TOF layer
>
> Best regards
>
> Kondo
>
>
>
> *From:* Erd108 <erd108-bounces at jlab.org> * On Behalf Of *Sourav Tarafdar
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 17, 2024 9:55 AM
> *To:* erd108 at jlab.org; Shyam Kumar <shyam055119 at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* [Erd108] Additional simulation request
>
>
>
> Dear all ,
>
>
>
> The request is mostly directed towards Matt and Shyam. I am wondering if
> it is possible to quickly do additional study on angular resolution @ DIRC
> location by increasing the material budget of barrel ToF from current 1.0%
> to 5.0% ? There has been chatter about increasing the material budget of
> ToF to 5.0% and before it takes a lead it will be good to know it's effect
> . Based on results shown in the Monday meeting I suppose it will further
> deteriorate angular resolution at DIRC. Also considering Shyam's method I
> think the analytical simulation method by Shyam will be good enough if
> DD4HEP sim is time taking.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Sourav
>

-- 
*Thanks and Regards, *

*-------------------------------------------------------Shyam Kumar,*

*Postdoctoral Fellow,*
*Istituto Nazionale di Fisica Nucleare (INFN), Bari, Italy*
*alt. email: shyam.kumar at cern.ch <shyam.kumar at cern.ch>*
*shyam <shyam at rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>.kumar at ba.infn.it <kumar at ba.infn.it>*
*-------------------------------------------------------*
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