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  Hi Maxence,</div>
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  why is it C that dominates? I thought one can vary both R (surface resistivity) and C (insulating gap) by an order of magnitude each, easily. If one follows the math in the famous 2006 paper by Dixit, it is indeed RC which defines the spread.</div>
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  Skipping half of the channels was indeed not the best idea. We did a similar mistake once with the DREAM electronics, where strips of widely different capacitance were mixed in the same ASIC. Not good for the common mode correction (which in case of DREAM
 was done by the ASIC itself), and effectively blows up the S/N ratio. I vaguely recall with the APVs this correction is done offline (?) though, so it must be a matter of skipping every second channel, right?<br>
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  Transverse diffusion is not a dominant effect in this configuration.</div>
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  Cheers,</div>
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    Alexander.</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Maxence Vandenbroucke <maxence.vandenbroucke@cea.fr><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 8, 2023 5:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tarafdar, Sourav <sourav.tarafdar@vanderbilt.edu><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Kiselev, Alexander <ayk@bnl.gov>; erd108@jlab.org <erd108@jlab.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Erd108] [EXTERNAL] Re: Draft of CPAD-2023 (11/7-11/10) talk</font>
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<div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word; line-break:after-white-space">Hi Sourav,
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<div class="">I’ve not followed the conversation in its entirety but just to say that in this case what is important is the layer between the resistive component and the readout electrode. The diffusion of the resistive layer happens there, so the distance
 between the DLC and the copper, and the permeability of the material, are going to be of importance in the effective cluster size. More precisely it’s the RC, but C dominates.</div>
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<div class="">Best,</div>
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<div class="">Maxence<br class="">
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<div class="">On 8 Nov 2023, at 07:49, Tarafdar, Sourav <<a href="mailto:sourav.tarafdar@vanderbilt.edu" class="">sourav.tarafdar@vanderbilt.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Hi Alexander,</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">The detector  (GEM + mRwell) itself had 1 mm drift gap and 0.5 mm transfer gap. The GEM + MMG has 1mm drift and 1 mm transfer gap. Both of them showed that mostly single strips were getting fired.  The transverse diffusion
 in KrCO2(80:20) at 2 kV/cm is 0.03 cm<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><sup class="">½<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></sup> . I think only relying on transverse diffusion of electrons will be probably misleading considering both
 the mRwell and MMG are resistive layer to aid in charge spread. I don’t have the exact number for the resistivity for these two layers at this moment. Electronics for all the prototypes were same but for the zigzag strips which has 128 strips (64 X + 64 Y)
 , 64 pins of one panasonic was used for X strips and 64 pins for second Panasonic was used for Y strips. Effectively half of the pins of each Panasonic was left floating causing more noise as compared to the other prototypes. It was not a good choice to decouple
 X-Y strips in two different connectors making the analysis more complex.   </span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Best regards,</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt">-Sourav</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">From:<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Kiselev, Alexander <<a href="mailto:ayk@bnl.gov" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">ayk@bnl.gov</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Date:<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 11:00 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Tarafdar, Sourav <<a href="mailto:sourav.tarafdar@vanderbilt.edu" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">sourav.tarafdar@vanderbilt.edu</a>>,<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">erd108@jlab.org</a><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">erd108@jlab.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: Draft of CPAD-2023 (11/7-11/10) talk</span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">  Hi Sourav,</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">  Well, the slide gives a hint that analysis is in progress, but in general it rather indicates that the readout just shows a poor performance (no charge sharing). Remind me please, what was
 the hybrid composition (and gaps in mm)? And what is the transverse diffusion coefficient  in all gaps for this mixture and V/cm values? More importantly, why common mode correction (and analysis procedure in general) face more difficulties than in the other
 cases? Sorry, I did not follow this development, but I thought the electronics setup was identical for all of these prototypes, except for the readout structure?</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">  Thank you,</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">    Alexander.</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="">From:</span></b><span class="" style=""><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tarafdar, Sourav <<a href="mailto:sourav.tarafdar@vanderbilt.edu" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">sourav.tarafdar@vanderbilt.edu</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, November 7, 2023 8:13 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Kiselev, Alexander <<a href="mailto:ayk@bnl.gov" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">ayk@bnl.gov</a>>;<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">erd108@jlab.org</a><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">erd108@jlab.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: Draft of CPAD-2023 (11/7-11/10) talk</span></div>
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Hi Alexander,</div>
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Thanks for the comments. I implemented the suggestions.<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
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As per your questions on slide 10, the plots are for normal angle of track on 1 mm drift gap prototype. For that detector I haven’t yet gotten to the point of extracting residual as it needs extensive work on common mode correction. Work is still in progress
 on that front.</div>
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Best regards,</div>
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-Sourav</div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">From:<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Kiselev, Alexander <<a href="mailto:ayk@bnl.gov" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">ayk@bnl.gov</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Date:<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 6:25 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>BOSSU Francesco <<a href="mailto:francesco.bossu@cea.fr" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">francesco.bossu@cea.fr</a>>, Tarafdar, Sourav <<a href="mailto:sourav.tarafdar@vanderbilt.edu" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">sourav.tarafdar@vanderbilt.edu</a>>,<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">erd108@jlab.org</a><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">erd108@jlab.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: Draft of CPAD-2023 (11/7-11/10) talk</span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">  Hi Sourav,</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">  A nice set of slides. Please consider to correct or spell out the following:</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">  slide 3: "Si<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">MAPS</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>tracker" (to make it clear why timing resolution is poor)</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">  slide 6: BNL bullet should be "2D zigzag" rather than "2D capacitive sharing"</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">  slide 6: as a matter of fact none of the pitch numbers on the illustrations matches the actual prototype (was 1.35mm in both projections)</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">  slide 6: a "gap" artifact should probably be removed</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">  slide 7: well, this is not happening in 2024</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">  slide 9: "2D chevron" -> "2D zigzag"</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">  slide 10: for my understanding, the bottom right plot is a total number of strips per event? at which angle is this, and with what drift gap? are you getting reasonable residuals at 0 degrees,
 for 2&3-strip clusters?</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">  Cheers & good luck with the talk!</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">    Alexander.</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="">From:</span></b><span class="" style=""><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Erd108 <<a href="mailto:erd108-bounces@jlab.org" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">erd108-bounces@jlab.org</a>>
 on behalf of BOSSU Francesco <<a href="mailto:francesco.bossu@cea.fr" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">francesco.bossu@cea.fr</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, November 7, 2023 6:13 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tarafdar, Sourav <<a href="mailto:sourav.tarafdar@vanderbilt.edu" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">sourav.tarafdar@vanderbilt.edu</a>>;<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">erd108@jlab.org</a><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">erd108@jlab.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>[Erd108] [EXTERNAL] Re: Draft of CPAD-2023 (11/7-11/10) talk</span></div>
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<p class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Dear Sourav</span></p>
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<p class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">sorry for the late comments.<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></p>
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<p class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">For the micromegas part, just two small suggestions.</span></p>
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<p class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">You can update the CAD design (slide 4) with a recent one (attached)</span></p>
<p class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">On the next slide, you can change the 2d zigzag schema with the asacusa pattern (in attachment).</span></p>
<p class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Also, if you want, you can add a picture of the beam test (attached)</span></p>
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<p class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">cheers</span></p>
<p class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Francesco</span></p>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="">From:</span></b><span class="" style=""><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Erd108 <<a href="mailto:erd108-bounces@jlab.org" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">erd108-bounces@jlab.org</a>>
 on behalf of Tarafdar, Sourav <<a href="mailto:sourav.tarafdar@vanderbilt.edu" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">sourav.tarafdar@vanderbilt.edu</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>06 November 2023 19:06:07<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">erd108@jlab.org</a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>[Erd108] [EXTERNAL] Re: Draft of CPAD-2023 (11/7-11/10) talk</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt">Dear all,</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt">I uploaded the modified version of the slides after implementing comments from Kondo and Marcus. I am just waiting to get updated detector mechanics drawing from<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="background-color:white">Pietro
 on slide 6.<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
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<span class="" style="background-color:white">If someone wants to see the slides from browser then suggestions is to open  the pdf version here</span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__drive.google.com_file_d_1xMW4bP1jkKIVmxjr1SOUa1gRoTd9lji8_view-3Fusp-3Dsharing&d=DwMGaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=6nBhCQ9asnI7Gb72jBWQ4g&m=BHZejW_VHb9Q71o7S-mlLGoen-4fy_9oIRXGOF2D_BWKm0S9LARltW1HokCHfvA-&s=Bhl_pPqaVPCV5weH78bL1b_vvshdd5fPUoAUAsIUAzM&e=" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline"><span class="" style="background-color:white">https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xMW4bP1jkKIVmxjr1SOUa1gRoTd9lji8/view?usp=sharing</span></a><span class="" style="background-color:white"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="background-color:white">The ppt vesrion is here<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_presentation_d_1S6Dxlu5LS8ji9l32U6tK5iLJwlsRTjyX_edit-3Fusp-3Ddrive-5Flink-26ouid-3D113597179804759540761-26rtpof-3Dtrue-26sd-3Dtrue&d=DwMGaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=6nBhCQ9asnI7Gb72jBWQ4g&m=BHZejW_VHb9Q71o7S-mlLGoen-4fy_9oIRXGOF2D_BWKm0S9LARltW1HokCHfvA-&s=-45W9WQ6VbMzVa6zRHxyNTPShTeJVGpyErjJmEI8SsY&e=" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline"><span class="" style="background-color:white">https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1S6Dxlu5LS8ji9l32U6tK5iLJwlsRTjyX/edit?usp=drive_link&ouid=113597179804759540761&rtpof=true&sd=true</span></a><span class="" style="background-color:white"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="background-color:white">Thanks,</span></div>
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<span class="" style="background-color:white">-Sourav</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="">From:<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span class="" style="">Tarafdar, Sourav <<a href="mailto:sourav.tarafdar@vanderbilt.edu" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">sourav.tarafdar@vanderbilt.edu</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Date:<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Monday, November 6, 2023 at 10:10 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <<a href="mailto:kg6cq@virginia.edu" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">kg6cq@virginia.edu</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">erd108@jlab.org</a><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">erd108@jlab.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: Draft of CPAD-2023 (11/7-11/10) talk</span></p>
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Hi Kondo,</div>
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Sure, will do that. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.</div>
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Thanks,</div>
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-Sourav</div>
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On Nov 6, 2023, at 9:23 AM, Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <<a href="mailto:kg6cq@virginia.edu" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">kg6cq@virginia.edu</a>> wrote:</p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt">Hi Sourav<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt">Please also add this reference on slide 6 underneath the cartoon of capacitive-sharing RO</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt">K. Gnanvo et al., NIM A, 1047 (2023) 167782</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt">Thanks<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt">Kondo</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span class="" style="font-size:11pt"><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Erd108 <<a href="mailto:erd108-bounces@jlab.org" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">erd108-bounces@jlab.org</a>><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
 Behalf Of<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Tarafdar, Sourav<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, November 5, 2023 1:36 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">erd108@jlab.org</a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>[Erd108] [EXTERNAL] Draft of CPAD-2023 (11/7-11/10) talk</span></div>
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Dear all,</div>
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Sorry for the delay but attached is the draft of my CPAD -2023 talk. The talk is scheduled for 11/8/2023.  It is 15 (12+3) minutes talk. Effectively I will prefer to limit the number of slides to 14.</div>
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Here is the  abstract<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__indico.slac.stanford.edu_event_8288_contributions_7884_&d=DwMFAg&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=6nBhCQ9asnI7Gb72jBWQ4g&m=FOKWrsPPVBb5Ws8ShBIf8yK8t0f_ByFpZDMVepxGV_fskiiyLJCqQu68QHF5bfJP&s=Ei85LJOTAcwgnqnxIQCznGR0Ged1YHzJIKYFLXhMrFc&e=" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">https://indico.slac.stanford.edu/event/8288/contributions/7884/</a> 
 and timetable<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__indico.slac.stanford.edu_event_8288_sessions_586_-2320231108&d=DwMFAg&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=6nBhCQ9asnI7Gb72jBWQ4g&m=FOKWrsPPVBb5Ws8ShBIf8yK8t0f_ByFpZDMVepxGV_fskiiyLJCqQu68QHF5bfJP&s=ewo_yspSItQBhkvxat7EcGRSwh_c3ED0-_2K4P6xzq0&e=" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline">https://indico.slac.stanford.edu/event/8288/sessions/586/#20231108</a><span class="" style="font-size:11pt"><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>.</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt">Any comments and suggestions are most welcome.</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt">Thanks,</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt">-Sourav</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:400; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">Erd108
 mailing list</span><br class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:400; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<a href="mailto:Erd108@jlab.org" class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193); text-decoration:underline; font-family:Helvetica; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:400; letter-spacing:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">Erd108@jlab.org</a><br class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:400; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
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Maxence Vandenbroucke, PhD<br class="">
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Université Paris-Saclay<br class="">
CEA Saclay<br class="">
91191 Gif-Sur-Yvette, France<br class="">
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Phone : +33 (0) 1 69 08 22 83<br class="">
@: <a href="mailto:maxence.vandenbroucke@cea.fr" class="">maxence.vandenbroucke@cea.fr</a><br class="">
@: <a href="mailto:maxence@cern.ch" class="">maxence@cern.ch</a></div>
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