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<div dir="ltr">Hi Kondo,</div>
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<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: inherit;">It’s mostly the</span><span id="ms-outlook-ios-cursor" style="font-size: inherit;"></span><span style="font-size: inherit;"> ease for them to construct the detector. Unfortunately many people promised big just
for the sake of getting their detector in day 1 and then walking back on big promises and fake claims . </span><br>
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<div dir="ltr">Best,</div>
<div dir="ltr">Sourav </div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo@jlab.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 17, 2024 11:26 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Sourav Tarafdar <stara@jlab.org>; Matthew Posik <posik@temple.edu>; Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <kg6cq@virginia.edu>; erd108@jlab.org <erd108@jlab.org>; Shyam Kumar <shyam055119@gmail.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Erd108] [External] Re: Additional simulation request
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Hi Sourav, </p>
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What is motivating the discussion of ToF going to 5%?</p>
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Kondo</p>
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<b>From:</b> Sourav Tarafdar <stara@jlab.org> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 17, 2024 11:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Matthew Posik <posik@temple.edu>; Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo@jlab.org>; Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <kg6cq@virginia.edu>; erd108@jlab.org; Shyam Kumar <shyam055119@gmail.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Erd108] [External] Re: Additional simulation request</p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; color: black;">Sure, I don't care about MPGD resolution. I wanted to stop the discussion of ToF going to 5% to further degrade the angular resolution from current ~ 3.5 mrad and effectively making DIRC useless
in low momentum region. </span></p>
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<b><span style="color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black;"> Erd108 <<a href="mailto:erd108-bounces@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">erd108-bounces@jlab.org</a>> on behalf of Matthew Posik <<a href="mailto:posik@temple.edu" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">posik@temple.edu</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 17, 2024 11:13 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kondo Gnanvo <<a href="mailto:kagnanvo@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">kagnanvo@jlab.org</a>>; Sourav Tarafdar <<a href="mailto:stara@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">stara@jlab.org</a>>;
Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <<a href="mailto:kg6cq@virginia.edu" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">kg6cq@virginia.edu</a>>;
<a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">
erd108@jlab.org</a> <<a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">erd108@jlab.org</a>>; Shyam Kumar <<a href="mailto:shyam055119@gmail.com" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">shyam055119@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Erd108] [External] Re: Additional simulation request</span> </p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; color: black;">Hi All,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; color: black;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; color: black;">Kondo is correct, the MPGD resolution does not help DIRC PID due to multiple scattering of the inner layers, even when the MPGD resolution is 50um. Adding the CF support just worsens the resolutions.
Additional material will further worsen the angular performance.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; color: black;">Thanks,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; color: black;">Matt</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">Matt Posik</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">Research Associate Professor </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">Temple University </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">Department of Physics</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">TU Office: SERC Room 451</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background: white; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">Physics Office: SERC Room 406/4th Floor</span></p>
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<b><span style="color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black;"> Erd108 <<a href="mailto:erd108-bounces@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">erd108-bounces@jlab.org</a>> on behalf of Kondo Gnanvo <<a href="mailto:kagnanvo@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">kagnanvo@jlab.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 17, 2024 10:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Sourav Tarafdar <<a href="mailto:stara@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">stara@jlab.org</a>>; Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <<a href="mailto:kg6cq@virginia.edu" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">kg6cq@virginia.edu</a>>;
<a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">
erd108@jlab.org</a> <<a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">erd108@jlab.org</a>>; Shyam Kumar <<a href="mailto:shyam055119@gmail.com" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">shyam055119@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [External] Re: [Erd108] Additional simulation request</span> </p>
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Hi Sourav </p>
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Ok, i will let Matt comment. My main point is whether good spatial resolution MPGD helps achieving the angular resolution requirements at the DIRC. It looks like even before including the CF material, we could not satisfy this requirement even with a 50um MPGD,
so </p>
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MPGD resolution does not help because multiple scattering of the inner layers is dominant factor</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;list-style-type:"- "">
0.5 mrad angular resolution requirements not met even before considering CF support structure </li></ul>
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Maybe I am wrong though! </p>
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Best regards </p>
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Kondo</p>
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<b><span style="color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black;"> Sourav Tarafdar <<a href="mailto:stara@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">stara@jlab.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 17, 2024 10:27:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kondo Gnanvo <<a href="mailto:kagnanvo@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">kagnanvo@jlab.org</a>>; Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <<a href="mailto:kg6cq@virginia.edu" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">kg6cq@virginia.edu</a>>;
<a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">
erd108@jlab.org</a> <<a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">erd108@jlab.org</a>>; Shyam Kumar <<a href="mailto:shyam055119@gmail.com" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">shyam055119@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Additional simulation request</span> </p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; color: black;">Hi Kondo,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; color: black;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; color: black;">Just during Monday simulation meeting Matt showed series of studies. Slide 15 in Matt's presentation concludes the effect of CF affects the angular resolution significantly, if I am not mistaken
in final conclusion during that presentation ? </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; color: black;">Regards,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; color: black;">Sourav </span></p>
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<b><span style="color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black;"> Erd108 <<a href="mailto:erd108-bounces@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">erd108-bounces@jlab.org</a>> on behalf of Kondo Gnanvo <<a href="mailto:kagnanvo@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">kagnanvo@jlab.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 17, 2024 10:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Sourav Tarafdar <<a href="mailto:stara@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">stara@jlab.org</a>>; Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <<a href="mailto:kg6cq@virginia.edu" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">kg6cq@virginia.edu</a>>;
<a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">
erd108@jlab.org</a> <<a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">erd108@jlab.org</a>>; Shyam Kumar <<a href="mailto:shyam055119@gmail.com" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">shyam055119@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Erd108] Additional simulation request</span> </p>
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Hi Sourav, </p>
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The spatial resolution was already irrelevant even before considering the CF material if i remember well from past studies. </p>
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I don’t remember a simulation study that ever show any impact of MPGD resolution on the angular resolution at the DIRC level </p>
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Best regards </p>
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Kondo </p>
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<b><span style="color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black;"> Erd108 <<a href="mailto:erd108-bounces@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">erd108-bounces@jlab.org</a>> on behalf of Sourav Tarafdar <<a href="mailto:stara@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">stara@jlab.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 17, 2024 10:11:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <<a href="mailto:kg6cq@virginia.edu" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">kg6cq@virginia.edu</a>>;
<a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">
erd108@jlab.org</a> <<a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">erd108@jlab.org</a>>; Shyam Kumar <<a href="mailto:shyam055119@gmail.com" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">shyam055119@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Erd108] Additional simulation request</span> </p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; color: black;">Hi Kondo,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; color: black;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; color: black;">I thought it was 3% Carbon fiber support structure causing multiple scattering which was basically making spatial resolution of MPGD irrelevant ?</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; color: black;">Regards,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; color: black;">Sourav</span></p>
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<b><span style="color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black;"> Gnanvo, Kondo (kg6cq) <<a href="mailto:kg6cq@virginia.edu" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">kg6cq@virginia.edu</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 17, 2024 10:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Sourav Tarafdar <<a href="mailto:stara@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">stara@jlab.org</a>>;
<a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">
erd108@jlab.org</a> <<a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">erd108@jlab.org</a>>; Shyam Kumar <<a href="mailto:shyam055119@gmail.com" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">shyam055119@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] RE: Additional simulation request</span> </p>
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Hi Sourav, </p>
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It looks like the material budget already the dominant parameter for the angular resolution study at the DIRC level so it seems very unlikely that there would be any difference between 1% and 5% for the TOF layer</p>
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Best regards </p>
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Kondo</p>
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<b>From:</b> Erd108 <<a href="mailto:erd108-bounces@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">erd108-bounces@jlab.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Sourav Tarafdar<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 17, 2024 9:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:erd108@jlab.org" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">
erd108@jlab.org</a>; Shyam Kumar <<a href="mailto:shyam055119@gmail.com" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">shyam055119@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Erd108] Additional simulation request</p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">Dear all ,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">The request is mostly directed towards Matt and Shyam. I am wondering if it is possible to quickly do additional study on angular resolution @ DIRC location by increasing the material budget of barrel ToF from current
1.0% to 5.0% ? There has been chatter about increasing the material budget of ToF to 5.0% and before it takes a lead it will be good to know it's effect . Based on results shown in the Monday meeting I suppose it will further deteriorate angular resolution
at DIRC. Also considering Shyam's method I think the analytical simulation method by Shyam will be good enough if DD4HEP sim is time taking. </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">Cheers,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">Sourav</span></p>
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