<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Hi, Volker,</div><div><br></div><div>I am sure we won't be able to resolve everything tomorrow, especially due to the hotels. We also have a pretty packed agenda ... </div><div><br></div><div>Let me know when you guys will be available in January and we can all resolve some of these issues related to kinematic fitting --- and Fsu contributions and perspectives will definitely be a key part.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Dec 20, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Volker Crede <<a href="mailto:crede@fsu.edu">crede@fsu.edu</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"><div class="">Lei,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Michael’s pull distributions for the two-pion channel are clearly not properly tuned. This is most likely because of the covariance matrix, any cuts (PID, timing, etc.) have an impact on the pull mean values but a smaller effect on the pull widths and the CL distribution. His widths are too small, which implies that the errors are too big and explains why the CL distribution is rising. I don’t really understand why this issue comes up now.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Since Zulkaida is currently not around, any <i class="">kinematic fitter</i> discussion in a meeting tomorrow wouldn’t make sense from my side. I suggest we postpone it until early next year.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best wishes,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Volker</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 19, 2015, at 9:31 PM, Lei Guo <<a href="mailto:lguo@jlab.org" class="">lguo@jlab.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="">I have seen something similar before... People do different cuts to preselected events, such as pid, timing, etc. when u do a more stringent precuts, the cl looks better. Not sure if this is the cause for the current issue</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards.</div><div class=""><br class="">Sent from my iPhone</div><div class=""><br class="">On Dec 19, 2015, at 1:40 AM, Michael C. Kunkel <<a href="mailto:mkunkel@jlab.org" class="">mkunkel@jlab.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
Greetings,<br class="">
<br class="">
My issue is with the difference of the pulls under the same
conditions. This should not be. This can only be true if somehow the
data sets are different. I do not agree with you that we an live
with somewhat different pull and CL distributions and I believe
having a meeting on this would be beneficial.<br class="">
<br class="">
I understand we have been through this several time, in fact it is
always FSU that brought this up and it was discussed. Now I am
bringing it up and wish to discuss it. I would hope for the same
professional courtesy as FSU received on the subject. <br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">BR
MK
----------------------------------------
Michael C. Kunkel, PhD
Forschungszentrum Jülich
Nuclear Physics Institute and Juelich Center for Hadron Physics
Experimental Hadron Structure (IKP-1)
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.fz-juelich.de/ikp">www.fz-juelich.de/ikp</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/18/15 6:16 PM, Volker Crede
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:9C7EDEEB-1D81-47B7-B89B-B460D718AFBC@fsu.edu" type="cite" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252" class="">
<div class="">Michael,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We have been trough this several times and I am afraid we
will never agree on these fine-tuning parameters. On the other
hand, as long as the actual code is the same, I believe we can
live with somewhat different pull and CL distributions …
provided they look okay.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">- Volker</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">On Dec 18, 2015, at 12:11 PM, "Michael C. Kunkel" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mkunkel@jlab.org" class=""></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mkunkel@jlab.org">mkunkel@jlab.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class=""> This is obvious, and
hence why Lei asked for everyone to show their pulls.<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">BR
MK
----------------------------------------
Michael C. Kunkel, PhD
Forschungszentrum Jülich
Nuclear Physics Institute and Juelich Center for Hadron Physics
Experimental Hadron Structure (IKP-1)
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.fz-juelich.de/ikp">www.fz-juelich.de/ikp</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/18/15 6:09 PM, Volker
Crede wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:DA9F3C8A-A4AE-4CBF-9E65-FD507B2607E0@fsu.edu" type="cite" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252" class="">
Apparently, there is more to it … Our distributions look
better.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">- Volker</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">On Dec 18, 2015, at 12:06 PM, Michael C. Kunkel
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mkunkel@jlab.org">mkunkel@jlab.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class=""> Incorrect.
If you run a diff on the codes from FSU and the
one shown there is no difference in any file.<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">BR
MK
----------------------------------------
Michael C. Kunkel, PhD
Forschungszentrum Jülich
Nuclear Physics Institute and Juelich Center for Hadron Physics
Experimental Hadron Structure (IKP-1)
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.fz-juelich.de/ikp">www.fz-juelich.de/ikp</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/18/15 5:35
PM, Volker Crede wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:B9D85535-3A4C-4601-89D5-A7E1F73DDDC6@fsu.edu" type="cite" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" class="">
Michael,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I don't think this is what FSU uses for
the pions … Our pulls and CL distribution
look slightly better.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">- Volker</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">On Dec 16, 2015, at 5:49 AM, Michael
C. Kunkel <<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mkunkel@jlab.org">mkunkel@jlab.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
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Greetings, <br class="">
<br class="">
Below is a link that shows the pull
probability and pull distributions
look like for the tune channel of p
pip pim. These parameters are what
FSU, ODU, Bochum, and others use for
pions. <br class="">
We had agreed that the pull
distributions were adequate if the
pull probability is adequate. However
as you can see from the plot, there is
a small rise in the pull probability
when it approaches 1. <br class="">
<br class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.jlab.org/Hall-B/secure/g12/mkunkel/G12_MEETINGS/excl_ppipi_10.pdf">https://www.jlab.org/Hall-B/secure/g12/mkunkel/G12_MEETINGS/excl_ppipi_10.pdf</a><br class="">
What do you think about this?
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
BR
MK
----------------------------------------
Michael C. Kunkel, PhD
Forschungszentrum Jülich
Nuclear Physics Institute and Juelich Center for Hadron Physics
Experimental Hadron Structure (IKP-1)
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.fz-juelich.de/ikp">www.fz-juelich.de/ikp</a></pre>
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