[G14_run] [EXTERNAL] Re: g14 meeting report on G extraction for pi- p photoproduction on the neutron
Tsuneo Kageya
kageya at jlab.org
Wed Jul 12 09:22:52 EDT 2023
Haiyun,
For the Sigma and G asymmetry vs phi distributions, some (many ?) of them for Sigma and G have similar behaviors, I wonder.
For example, 8th and 9th figures in Figure 35 and 40 are similarly distributed, although values are different.
On other energy ranges, similar things are observed.
I wonder if you are not plotting the right phi distributions for G.
I may be wrong.
Regards, Tsuneo Kageya.
From: Haiyun Lu <haiyun.lu at gmail.com>
Date: Monday, July 3, 2023 at 6:27 AM
To: Annalisa D'Angelo <annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it>
Cc: "igor at gwu.edu" <igor at gwu.edu>, Andy Sandorfi <sandorfi at jlab.org>, g14 run <g14_run at jlab.org>, Tsuneo Kageya <kageya at jlab.org>, Franz Klein <fklein at jlab.org>, Filippi <filippi at to.infn.it>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: g14 meeting report on G extraction for pi- p photoproduction on the neutron
Dear Annalisa,
Thank you and all the colleagues thinking it over and giving the valuable feedback. I believe all the suggestions are much helpful to make the work more logically complete. I will work accordingly after I get back home on the coming Friday and hopefully complete it during weekends.
Thanks and regards,
Haiyun
On Mon, Jul 3, 2023, 04:39 Annalisa D'Angelo <annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it<mailto:annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it>> wrote:
Dear Haiyun,
thank you for your hard work. The final version of the analysis note is very good shape and shows the accuracy of your analysis.
While a detailed study of systematic errors related to the event yields and to beam and target polarizations has been performed, the accuracy of the extraction of the G asymmetry values still needs some assessment, as shown from the variation of results obtained for the bins that you have re-fitted.
G is the main outcome of this work and we should be 100% sure of the final results.
The main problem lays in the fact that many plots of figures from 38 to 42 show an overall offset and an additional underlying cos 2phi structure. This points to the fact that the de-coupling of Sigma and G obtained from equations 3 and 4 is not 100% effective.
The new figures 43, 44 and 45, show that the p0 parameter, which we understand corresponds to the extracted G value, changes in sign and strength (up to a factor 10 from 0.01 to 0.1), but fortunately the variation is compatible with the high statistical error associated to the p0 parameter error.
This topic has been discussed among Mike, Tsuneo and myself during lat g14 meeting. As a result we would suggest to:
- perform a systematic study of the variation of the p0 parameter fitting ALL the distributions of figures from 38 to 42 using both i) the G sin 2phi function ii) the G sin2phi + a cos 2phi +c
function as you did for the figures 43, 44 and 45;
- use the results obtained for G for the two procedures to assess the systematic error due to the residual coupling of Sigma and G contributions, and add them to the systematic error table for G.
There are some other minor observation I would like to mention in the following:
- you name the appendixes just A, B, C. I would suggest naming a quoting them as Appendix A, Appendix B etc.
- you have interchanged the symbol for the double polarization asymmetry between g, G and |G (Capital G with an additional internal vertical line in the symbol).
In particular g is used when the observable is extracted from the fit, while G is often used as a simplified version of G and "|G". I would suggest using G everywhere, including in the title.
- figure 28 at page 26 is still missing figure labels
- figure 29 a at page 27 has wrong figure label.
- coefficients a,c in the captions of figures 43,44 and 45 are fit parameters, not constants.
- the captions of figures 43, 44 and 45 show more theta angles than those appearing in the plots. We would suggest to replace those figures, and the ones from 38 to 42, with the ones comparing the two fits mentioned above, including all energies and angles;
- at page 29 the sentence:
"The fitting quality is qualitatively denoted by "Prob" in the figures"
Should be substituted by something like:
"The fitting quality is expressed by the probability ("Prob") of obtaining a higher value for the reduced Chi-2 variable, as shown in the figures upper boxes"
Should you agree on performing the fits, the text and the result should be updated accordingly.
Thank you for your patience and attention
All the best
Annalisa
Il 20/06/23 05:10, Haiyun Lu ha scritto:
I finished studying the fit behavior of some G fits. Basically, additional cos(2phi) and constant terms are added to represent leaked Sigma. The appendix B, fitting Sigma and G, is updated with additional fits. A paragraph is added in conclusion to explain this, and final values are updated accordingly.
It should be complete now.
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 8:45 PM Haiyun Lu <haiyun.lu at gmail.com<mailto:haiyun.lu at gmail.com>> wrote:
I finished integrating all the comments into the note at overleaf. It is ready for a final-round review before submitting to CLAS review.
There are some touches needed for figures and I will update them while it is reviewed.
Thanks,
Haiyun
On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 9:33 AM Igor Strakovsky <igor at gwu.edu<mailto:igor at gwu.edu>> wrote:
Hi Andy,
Actually, MAID web does not report what data they are using. Anyway, I am sending Victor
all the data which SAID has (including updates). So, please be sure that MAID results is up
to date
Cheers, Igor
-----
Igor Strakovsky, SAID INS The George Washington University
VSTC: 571-553-8344, Cell: 703-728-5627, Skype: igors1945_2
Emails: igor at gwu.edu<mailto:igor at gwu.edu>, igor at jlab.org<mailto:igor at jlab.org>
On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 1:09 PM Andy Sandorfi <sandorfi at jlab.org<mailto:sandorfi at jlab.org>> wrote:
Hi Igor,
Can you check if Victor is able to make a statement such as, “the MAID PWA includes all available data up to year XXXX” ?
Andy
From: Igor Strakovsky <igor at gwu.edu<mailto:igor at gwu.edu>>
Date: Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 12:56 PM
To: Andy Sandorfi <sandorfi at jlab.org<mailto:sandorfi at jlab.org>>
Cc: Annalisa D'Angelo <annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it<mailto:annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it>>, g14 run <g14_run at jlab.org<mailto:g14_run at jlab.org>>, haiyun.lu at gmail.com<mailto:haiyun.lu at gmail.com> <haiyun.lu at gmail.com<mailto:haiyun.lu at gmail.com>>, Tsuneo Kageya <kageya at jlab.org<mailto:kageya at jlab.org>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [G14_run] MAID
Hi Andy,
The situation with MAID is not really simple. There is one retired person, Victor, whois still active. Ostrick and Denig told me that they do not have interest/resources in supporting MAID. But Victor gave MAID predictions upon my request. My hope is that he will be a co-author of the coming g14 paper
Cheers, Igor
-----
Igor Strakovsky, SAID INS The George Washington University
VSTC: 571-553-8344, Cell: 703-728-5627, Skype: igors1945_2
Emails: igor at gwu.edu<mailto:igor at gwu.edu>, igor at jlab.org<mailto:igor at jlab.org>
On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 12:10 PM Andy Sandorfi via G14_run <g14_run at jlab.org<mailto:g14_run at jlab.org>> wrote:
Hi Annalisa,
Please verify with Igor, but I believe that MAID has not been updated in years. It’s OK to show the MAID predictions with the g14 data in a paper, but one should include a statement about when that PWA was last updated.
Andy
From: G14_run <g14_run-bounces at jlab.org<mailto:g14_run-bounces at jlab.org>> on behalf of Annalisa D'Angelo via G14_run <g14_run at jlab.org<mailto:g14_run at jlab.org>>
Date: Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 8:57 AM
To: g14 run <g14_run at jlab.org<mailto:g14_run at jlab.org>>, haiyun.lu at gmail.com<mailto:haiyun.lu at gmail.com> <haiyun.lu at gmail.com<mailto:haiyun.lu at gmail.com>>, Tsuneo Kageya <kageya at jlab.org<mailto:kageya at jlab.org>>
Subject: [G14_run] Fwd: [EXTERNAL] MAID
Dear All,
I am forwarding to you the prediction from MAID, kindly provided buy Igor, for the Sigma and G observables in pi-p photoproduction.
All the best
Annalisa
-------- Messaggio Inoltrato --------
Oggetto:
Re: [EXTERNAL] MAID
Data:
Fri, 14 Apr 2023 09:09:02 -0400
Mittente:
Igor Strakovsky <igor at gwu.edu><mailto:igor at gwu.edu>
Rispondi-a:
igor at gwu.edu<mailto:igor at gwu.edu>
A:
Annalisa D'Angelo <annalisa at jlab.org><mailto:annalisa at jlab.org>, Franz Klein <fklein at jlab.org><mailto:fklein at jlab.org>, Annalisa D'Angelo <annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it><mailto:annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it>
Dear Annalisa,
Thanks
You too, Have a nice weekend,
Igor
ps: Please find attached MAID predictions for Sigma and G for gn-->pi-p
-----
Igor Strakovsky, SAID INS The George Washington University
VSTC: 571-553-8344, Cell: 703-728-5627, Skype: igors1945_2
Emails: igor at gwu.edu<mailto:igor at gwu.edu>, igor at jlab.org<mailto:igor at jlab.org>
On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 9:04 AM Annalisa D'Angelo <annalisa at jlab.org<mailto:annalisa at jlab.org>> wrote:
Dear Igor,
thank you! See you on Monday. Have a nice week-end.
Annalisa
Il 14/04/23 15:01, Igor Strakovsky ha scritto:
Dear Annalisa,
Monday, 10am works for me
We can use Zoom: https://jlab-org.zoomgov.com/j/1619984443<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__jlab-2Dorg.zoomgov.com_j_1615438135-3Fpwd-3Dbm8xdmY0dytXeUtWV1ZEN2NVdVppdz09&d=DwMFaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=QDJbiECzfxNvPOYgSWghomOgImTBYIv1HgeGmNQ96o8&m=yAkhnpgy_6dw2nLM9lufdlr3UgnIGNdNV_T94FyAVb-lZakk5NgNMx5ooxvwMiAp&s=GCGcJed3poThbLq2pM9SXPInBAiRh2yKP3-U0AIY2e4&e=>
Or any alternative
Cheers, Igor
-----
Igor Strakovsky, SAID INS The George Washington University
VSTC: 571-553-8344, Cell: 703-728-5627, Skype: igors1945_2
Emails: igor at gwu.edu<mailto:igor at gwu.edu>, igor at jlab.org<mailto:igor at jlab.org>
On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 8:52 AM Annalisa D'Angelo <annalisa at jlab.org<mailto:annalisa at jlab.org>> wrote:
Dear Igor,
what about Monday april 17 at 10:00 am Jlab time?
Annalisa
Il 13/04/23 16:36, Igor Strakovsky ha scritto:
Hi Annalisa,
Can we talk about ReggeMAID someday by Zoom or Skype?
Thanks, Igor
-----
Igor Strakovsky, SAID INS The George Washington University
VSTC: 571-553-8344, Cell: 703-728-5627, Skype: igors1945_2
Emails: igor at gwu.edu<mailto:igor at gwu.edu>, igor at jlab.org<mailto:igor at jlab.org>
--
================================================
Prof. Annalisa D'Angelo
Dip. Fisica, Universita' di Roma "Tor Vergata"
Istituto Nazionale di Fisica Nucleare
Sezione di Roma Tor Vergata, Rome Italy
email:annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it<mailto:email:annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it>
Jefferson Laboratory, Newport News, VA USA
Email: annalisa at jlab.org<mailto:annalisa at jlab.org>
Tel: + 39 06 72594562
--
================================================
Prof. Annalisa D'Angelo
Dip. Fisica, Universita' di Roma "Tor Vergata"
Istituto Nazionale di Fisica Nucleare
Sezione di Roma Tor Vergata, Rome Italy
email:annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it<mailto:email:annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it>
Jefferson Laboratory, Newport News, VA USA
Email: annalisa at jlab.org<mailto:annalisa at jlab.org>
Tel: + 39 06 72594562
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================================================
Prof. Annalisa D'Angelo
Dip. Fisica, Universita' di Roma "Tor Vergata"
Istituto Nazionale di Fisica Nucleare
Sezione di Roma Tor Vergata, Rome Italy
email:annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it<mailto:email:annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it>
Jefferson Laboratory, Newport News, VA USA
Email: annalisa at jlab.org<mailto:annalisa at jlab.org>
Tel: + 39 06 72594562
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