[Gpdtc] [External] Summary....

Thu Jan 13 17:19:44 EST 2022

Hi David,

I am just thinking of a possibility that some institutions have not aligned with the "other" group, but they support the initiative in general. Did anyone from us talk to Iain or Phiala, for example?

Best,
Martha

************************************************
Martha Constantinou
Assistant Professor of Physics
Selma Lee Bloch Brown Professorship

Physics Department, Temple University
1925 N. 12th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19122-1801

Phone: +1 (215) 204 2878
email: marthac at temple.edu<mailto:marthac at temple.edu>
web: phys.cst.temple.edu/martha-constantinou.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__phys.cst.temple.edu_martha-2Dconstantinou.html&d=DwIF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=O0ypPvcn8ZUcU42oKTSHzQ&m=tqYwpi9eM8O6rcwxDZE51WGmNr8HUUVULm6pGLz12t-xWJxdwWCXgIuaVIeN1-nH&s=BD0ts97hNJh1kXRuPkmg33cIqU0-4RHccYDvQwOY-R0&e= >
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________________________________
From: David Richards <dgr at jlab.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 3:40 PM
To: Martha Constantinou <marthac at temple.edu>
Cc: gpdtc at jlab.org <gpdtc at jlab.org>
Subject: Re: [External] [Gpdtc] Summary....

Hi Martha,

Good point - indeed I am not sure, though I think I recall Feng had said he had talked to them?  I could of course be vague and say “and the colleagues you have been in discussions with” or some such thing.

I would also I guess have to address this email both to Feng and to Xiangdong?  Of course, this as opposed to a steering group may be a distinction without a difference, but there is a difference in that it is not really an “open call” for everyone to join.

David
On Jan 13, 2022, at 3:31 PM, Martha Constantinou <marthac at temple.edu<mailto:marthac at temple.edu>> wrote:

Hi David,

you mention in your potential email: " and I understand of course you, LBL, MIT "

Are you aware if actually, institutions like MIT are part of Xiangdong's group? Or is it, that they were approached and expressed a general interest in such an effort?

Best,
Martha

************************************************
Martha Constantinou
Assistant Professor of Physics
Selma Lee Bloch Brown Professorship

Physics Department, Temple University
1925 N. 12th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19122-1801

Phone: +1 (215) 204 2878
email: marthac at temple.edu<mailto:marthac at temple.edu>
web: phys.cst.temple.edu/martha-constantinou.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Furldefense.proofpoint.com-252Fv2-252Furl-253Fu-253Dhttp-2D3A-5F-5Fphys.cst.temple.edu-5Fmartha-2D2Dconstantinou.html-2526d-253DDwMF-2Dg-2526c-253DCJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw-2526r-253DVqTuHdztI1WEJtaX9L67lw-2526m-253Dh8za-2DAdgWMmjMMh3GkHcf6k7eSId-2DCTmfJE9ygh44m4XA5Lw0MoYc1MjvNIXO1hF-2526s-253DC4kEdVsbb5KZD7FL7DtsNXTtUQmsBmZo4n6ODb3f5-2DA-2526e-253D-26data-3D04-257C01-257Cmarthac-2540temple.edu-257Caf26111189ed44249dc808d9d6d4e989-257C716e81efb52244738e3110bd02ccf6e5-257C0-257C0-257C637777032209449288-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C3000-26sdata-3DKS5DpbpDTZT8dxVn54H1w-252F3vSRlQmhecKhooNumXchs-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwIF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=O0ypPvcn8ZUcU42oKTSHzQ&m=tqYwpi9eM8O6rcwxDZE51WGmNr8HUUVULm6pGLz12t-xWJxdwWCXgIuaVIeN1-nH&s=Yf_GBbmJzAO9X22hGJbkltVmT9SKNDHk53zYWV9g4_A&e= >
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________________________________
From: Gpdtc <gpdtc-bounces at jlab.org<mailto:gpdtc-bounces at jlab.org>> on behalf of David Richards <dgr at jlab.org<mailto:dgr at jlab.org>>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 12:28 PM
To: gpdtc at jlab.org<mailto:gpdtc at jlab.org> <gpdtc at jlab.org<mailto:gpdtc at jlab.org>>
Subject: [External] [Gpdtc] Summary....

Dear All,

That was quite a long meeting, with a lot of very valuable discussion.  I’m not going to try to write minutes, but rather what I think are the key points that we agreed on.  I’ll then list at the end what I think we agreed was the best way forward.  I’ve tried to capture this as best I can, but please correct/add/remove as appropriate.

Regrds,
David

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1) There are likely to be 3-5 awards, and there are a total of 5-6 broad physics areas mentioned in the FOA.  Thus it is highly unlikely that more than one proposal focused on hadron structure would be supported, and therefore it is important we construct a single proposal focused on the structure area which would encompass the key groups needed to achieve its goals

2) We have already a structure in place, and well-defined physics goals, albeit with the details to be refined.

3) An important practical requirement is that the lead institution, ie where the PI is, ensure the maximum $ devoted to the project.  That institution did not need to be a lab, and indeed a university could offer advantages in terms of: overhead, DEI, and using overhead as an advantage in arguing for bridge positions.  Temple (but also Hampton) may want to explore that.

4) We have a core team that could address those goals (GPD Theory, Lattice QCD, global analysis for GPDs), but bringing in extra key people would most certainly strengthen that proposal -  Xiangdong and collaborators to strengthen the theoretical underpinnings and interpretation, MIT (Lattice QCD, SCET?), SUNY (Lattice, QCD-inspired models, not so sure here), LBNL (Feng Yuan, Wigner functions and phenomenology). UW, NMSU,UKY?

5) A steering committee (or coordinating committee) with three “nominated” by us, and three by Feng and colleagues, with implicitly Xiangdong as a 7th may not be the most effective way of proceeding.  Further, it was someone unclear as to the role such a steering committee would have: constructing the physics, deciding who to participate, writing the proposal, etc.. Further, it could become somewhat unmanageable if its aim is to “represent” the community rather than being built from the bottom up based on the current efforts.

- The steering committee as proposed would also basically lead to the overthrow of the structure we have put in place, and thereby implicitly any control.

Proposal
——————

We send an email to Xiangdong expressing some of our concerns, and suggest he meet with (a subgroup) of us early next week where we make the case that rather than a steering committee, we rather capitalize on the structure we already have, in that we identify some other key groups that would strengthen the proposal - I’ve listed a few in 4) above - and then form a strong coordinating committee from that group that will represent the since and will lead the effort on writing a strong proposal.

Tentative Letter
———————————

Dear Xiangdong,

Thank you very much for arranging the town-hall meeting on Wednesday, which stimulated a lot of very valuable discussion and really demonstrated the excitement present in the community. There was a large amount of overlap between the physics program that Feng discussed, and that which we have been focusing on.  As I mentioned, we were to have our meeting Thursday morning, where we focused on the issues that were raised on Wednesday, and in particular regarding your suggestion of a steering committee: three suggested by the group here, with three suggested by Feng and his colleagues, together with a seventh member.

One consideration we had in setting up our effort in anticipation of an FOA was in constructing a core team that encompassed the key expertise needed to address the target problem, but but with the anticipation of adding additional groups to construct the strongest and most responsive proposal to the FOA.

A concern we have is that a steering committee that in a sense represents the community may become somewhat unmanageable when there are already these two efforts: those that my colleagues have initiated, and those of Feng and his colleagues.   Rather than in some sense “going back to the drawing board” through a steering committee, the process might be more manageable were we to merge our efforts (WERE YOU TO JOIN THE EFFORT WE HAVE PUT IN PLACE?  PLEASE, WORDING!) - I had on my slides the institutions/names in our efforts, and I understand of course you, LBL, MIT - and then use that as the basis of the effort going forward. Such an approach would avoid negating the efforts the teams have already put in.   It is then from that effort we would have our “coordinating committee” (maybe better than “steering committee”).  We would then reach out to other groups whom we felt were needed to make the strongest possible proposal.

One thing I should emphasize is that the issue of PI at this stage is probably somewhat premature, though one that should be sorted out in good time for the LOI - and the lead institution is probably going to be driven by a combination of a strong physics presence, and the most attractive overhead structure.

So how to move forward.  Following our meeting this morning, the consensus was for a few of us (NAMES?) have a discussion with you (AND OF COURSE FENG AND OTHERS?) early next week to share our thoughts.  Please feel free to share this email as you wish.

Regards,
David

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