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Hey, </div>
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I think these strange results look great. I am not positive about the renormalization with the light quarks. Ultimately, there are two competing statements. </div>
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The renormalization constants in our ideal scheme should be flavor independent and multiplicative. This is perhaps a little idealistic and disagrees with some issues other groups run into. </div>
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The ideal setting perhaps is just simply different than Rajan's implementation of RIMom using ensembles which doesn't have flavor symmetry (ie strange mass =/= light mass). This is the sort of mixing effect Mike Wagman was worrying about at QCD Evolution where
the renormalization goes </div>
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M^s_R = (1+alpha_s ...) M^s_b + (alpha_s....) M^l_v</div>
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Since M^l_b is 10x larger than M^s_b, the supposedly alpha_s suppressed contribution is still large enough to be a problem. Maybe doing RIMom in the massless limit while controlling flavor symmetry this can be avoided which is what RBC does because SU(N_f)
gets harder when you care about left vs right.</div>
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I'm sketchy on all this but if you show this strange result people might ask questions about it. The Schrodinger Functional is a way around this, but it's non-trivial amount of work. </div>
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As for the ratio shown, as you say the normalization might be off. The bare l=u+d matrix elements you use are M^l_b(0,z) = Z M^l_R(0,z) where M^l_R(0,z)=3 in the small z^2 limit. On the other hand, you want the normalization as if it were just giving Z, that
is M_R(0,z)=1. This implies you need to multiply all your results by 3. </div>
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Now this is the problem. In the attached, I have a notebook which reads in the data from
<a class="OWAAutoLink" id="LPlnkOWA3c0c6eac-3668-df45-0e30-4f0274dcf56f" href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wxbnWK6-sf6lL3gV-sDSs2al2VxxwroN/view?usp=drive_link">
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wxbnWK6-sf6lL3gV-sDSs2al2VxxwroN/view?usp=drive_link</a> and plots the imaginary ITD. It looks like you are 3x too large not 3x too small. </div>
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My other hacky idea which is a million times easier to test than SF which is to assume flavor symmetry. u+d+s and u+d-2s would be in different SU(3) irreps and renormalize multiplicatively and you form their double ratio. Then you take the linear combination
to isolate s from u+d. I think this also makes the issues with normalization clear too since both combinations approach 3 at nu=0. Chris, have you tried this yet? If you share bare matelem jackknife samples for u+d (conn + disco combined) and s, then I can
try it easy enough. </div>
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Best,</div>
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Joe</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Hadstruct <hadstruct-bounces@jlab.org> on behalf of David Richards via Hadstruct <hadstruct@jlab.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 30, 2025 9:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Christopher Monahan <cmonahan2024@ColoradoCollege.edu><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Joseph Karpie via Hadstruct <hadstruct@jlab.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Hadstruct] [EXTERNAL] Draft lattice abstract</font>
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<div style="line-break:after-white-space">Hi Chris,
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<div>I think this looks good. I’ll circulate an abstract tomorrow, though with the shutdown I suspect my attendance might be shutdown also since it is waiting on the CFO for approval.</div>
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<div>David<br id="x_lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
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<div>On Sep 29, 2025, at 9:41 PM, Christopher Monahan via Hadstruct <hadstruct@jlab.org> wrote:</div>
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Hi Savvas,</div>
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Thank you. I am happy to share strange disco results if those are ready, but I was not planning to mention that in the abstract, in case they aren't. I figured just leaving "isoscalar quark" is broad enough to cover both cases.</div>
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Regards</div>
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Chris</div>
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Chris Monahan</div>
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Pronouns: he/his</div>
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Department of Physics</div>
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Colorado College</div>
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Savvas Zafeiropoulos <<a href="mailto:savvaslz@gmail.com">savvaslz@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>29 September 2025 13:42<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Christopher Monahan <<a href="mailto:cmonahan2024@coloradocollege.edu">cmonahan2024@coloradocollege.edu</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Joseph Karpie via Hadstruct <<a href="mailto:hadstruct@jlab.org">hadstruct@jlab.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Hadstruct] [EXTERNAL] Draft lattice abstract</font>
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<div dir="ltr">Hi Chris,
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<div>looks very good. Are you planning only to show the disco results for light quarks or strange too (if we manage to have these results ready)?</div>
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<div>Best,</div>
<div>Savvas</div>
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<span style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:400; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:400; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:400; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">Hadstruct
mailing list</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:400; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:400; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">Hadstruct@jlab.org</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:400; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:400; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/hadstruct</span></div>
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