[Halld-cal] BCAL objects in DANA
Fernando J. Barbosa
barbosa at jlab.org
Fri Feb 12 11:55:41 EST 2010
I Eugene,
I agree. The simulations should also address the number of photons
expected on each SiPM and on the summed arrays because of dynamic range
issues.
Best regards,
Fernando
Eugene Chudakov wrote:
> An off topic comment on combining the photodetectors:
>
> radial summing seems reasonable for the inner 6 layers
> of the detectors, but is not obvious for the outer 4 layers.
> I would try to combine the outer layers in groups 2x2.
> It may happen that the shower will spread to fewer
> readout channels.
>
> We should simulate the energy resolution for these two options,
> taking into account the noise in SiPMs.
>
> Eugene
>
> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010, Fernando J. Barbosa wrote:
>
>> Hi Beni,
>>
>> The present plan is to get sums of three inner SiPMs and sums of
>> four outer SiPMs, all radially. This is not fixed yet but budgets
>> don't allow for finer granularity.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Fernando
>>
>>
>>
>> Beni Zihlmann wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>> there is one more point to consider. Since we decided to go for SiPM
>>> we also want to sum up signals from the SiPMs before
>>> digitization. As a consequence there will be no direct relation
>>> between the "True Hit" in a cell (single SiPM) from geant and
>>> the digitization which has to be done after summing several SiPM
>>> first. I am not sure if the exact number of SiPM that need
>>> to be summed is already fixed or not.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> Beni
>>>
>>> Hi David,
>>>
>>>> Sure there are "two levels" of truth information, I don't much see
>>>> the point in having cell-level truth information though other than
>>>> its one time use for doing digitization. Practically, if I want to
>>>> know anything about resolution then I need the DBCALTruthShower,
>>>> which *is* well named to correspond with DBCALShower. Comparing
>>>> these two objects will tell me interesting things like my shower
>>>> resolution and efficiency (this is why we have truth information
>>>> for the user).
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure what your suggestion is... if you want to get rid of
>>>> HDDM in the name then simply renaming the class DHDDMBCALHit to
>>>> DBCALTruthHit can be done. I think don't see any problem with the
>>>> name and organization of the other classes though, with the
>>>> exception that eventually the source of DBCALHit should come from
>>>> mcsmear and not the DBCALMCResponse_factory.
>>>>
>>>> -Matt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 11, 2010, at 5:10 PM, David Lawrence wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Matt,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm invoking the 3-e-mail exchange rule and cc-ing this to the
>>>>> halld-cal list....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps it's just semantics. I see 2 levels of "truth"
>>>>> information. The first is the energy of the photon incident on the
>>>>> calorimeter and the second is the energies deposited in the
>>>>> individual detectors. The pre-smeared energy in the individual
>>>>> detector represents the "true energy deposited", but does not
>>>>> represent the "measured energy". Since it is unrealistically good,
>>>>> we should tag it as such. The string "HDDM" is really unrelated to
>>>>> whether the data is "truth" or "digitized" so doesn't serve that
>>>>> purpose very well.
>>>>> We currently have the incident photon energy in
>>>>> DBCALTruthShower (which is not particularly well named either
>>>>> since it contains only information that exists prior to the shower
>>>>> occurring). Nonetheless, DBCALTruthHit doesn't overlap with that
>>>>> name and would seem, at least to me to be fairly descriptive of
>>>>> the information it contains.
>>>>>
>>>>> The FCAL actually ends up having 3 objects:
>>>>>
>>>>> DFCALTruthShower
>>>>> DFCALHit:TRUTH
>>>>> DFCALHit
>>>>>
>>>>> The DFCALHit object is used for both "truth" hits (DFCALHit:TRUTH)
>>>>> and "digitized" hits (DFCALHit). This is possible since there is a
>>>>> 1-to-1 correspondence between the information coming from hdgeant
>>>>> and the digitzed values used in the reconstruction. The BCAL, as
>>>>> you say, has a single hit coming from hdgeant that must be turned
>>>>> into 2 hits before starting the reconstruction. This means you
>>>>> can't really recycle classes in the same way. The point being,
>>>>> however, that there are effectively 3 objects in the FCAL as well.
>>>>> The DBCALTruthHit would then just correspond to DFCALHit:TRUTH.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> -David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Matthew Shepherd wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi David,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I"m not sure 1 is possible. The truth hit and hddm hit are
>>>>>> fundamentally different things. Truth hit is the location of a
>>>>>> true photon that struck the BCAL, more like a truth _shower_,
>>>>>> while HDDM hit is the energy deposition from GEANT in a single
>>>>>> cell. This then energy deposition then has to be turned into two
>>>>>> hits, one for upstream and one for downstream sensors. I agree
>>>>>> this would be better done in 1.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think the FCAL code behaves as you say. Note there are
>>>>>> two classes in FCAL also: DFCALTruthShower and DFCALHit. This
>>>>>> again, is the fundamental difference between energy deposition in
>>>>>> a cell and clustered hits, which represent actual photons (which
>>>>>> can then be compared to truth information).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Moving code to mcsmear is a good idea. I think I volunteered to
>>>>>> do that, once we had an agreement on how MC smear would handle
>>>>>> the fact that the class it read in DBCALHDDMHit (1 instance per
>>>>>> cell) has a different structure than the class it writes out
>>>>>> DBCALHit (2 instances per cell).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2010, at 1:54 PM, David Lawrence wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMHO the "HDDM" was intended to indicate some type of
>>>>>>> low-level information that is contained directly in the HDDM
>>>>>>> file. I would suggest that to be more consistent with our
>>>>>>> current naming conventions that we do one of the following:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Rename "DHDDMBCALHit" to "DBCALTruthHit". This follows our
>>>>>>> agreed upon (and often not followed) convention to include the
>>>>>>> word "truth" in the names of objects that carry information that
>>>>>>> will not be available in the real data.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. Re-tool things to follow the scheme used for the FCAL where
>>>>>>> there is only one class, DFCALHit, but the un-smeared objects
>>>>>>> have the tag "TRUTH" and the smeared ones have no tag. This may
>>>>>>> not be as easy (or even desirable) for the BCAL due to the
>>>>>>> double ended readout.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would volunteer to implement 1. if there was general
>>>>>>> agreement. Implementing 2 would be better done while moving the
>>>>>>> smearing code from the reconstruction into mcsmear since it
>>>>>>> involves a little more manipulation so I'm not quite
>>>>>>> volunteering for that yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Again, just my opinion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> -David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Zisis Papandreou wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello Matt: thanks for clarifying this. Cheers, Zisis...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2010-02-10, at 8:11 PM, Matthew Shepherd wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> DBCALHit is the thing that most clearly resembles raw data. as
>>>>>>>>> this is effectively the signal coming out of a photosensor.
>>>>>>>>> However, DHDDMBCALHit cannot be dropped since it is needed to
>>>>>>>>> deliver the energy deposition in a cell (what Geant actually
>>>>>>>>> tracks) to the framework. In the framework, the
>>>>>>>>> "digitization" process is completed and the DBCALHit objects
>>>>>>>>> are produced.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 10, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Zisis Papandreou wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> David, Matt: Any idea?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Zisis...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Blake Leverington <leverinb at uregina.ca>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Date: February 10, 2010 5:15:54 PM GMT-06:00
>>>>>>>>>>> To: Zisis Papandreou <zisis at uregina.ca>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Matt Shepherd <mashephe at indiana.edu>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Fwd: BCAL objects in DANA
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not the one to answer this. I've never looked at that
>>>>>>>>>>> file before.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Blake
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/02/10 04:57 PM, Zisis Papandreou wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> can one of you answer Elliott and cc: me?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Zisis...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Elliott Wolin <wolin at jlab.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: February 10, 2010 2:51:18 PM GMT-06:00
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Zisis Papandreou <Zisis.Papandreou at uregina.ca>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Mark Ito <marki at jlab.org>, David Lawrence
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <davidl at jlab.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: BCAL objects in DANA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Zisis,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see DBCALHit.h and DHDDMBCALHit.h in the repository.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are very similar. Which one represents the HDDM data
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the best, i.e. the one I should dump to EVIO files? Also,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can one be eliminated since they are so similar? And
>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever remains should be called DBCALHit.h (drop HDDM in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the name).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Elliott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ================================================================================
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Those raised in a morally relative or neutral environment
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will hold
>>>>>>>>>>>>> no truths to be self-evident.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Elliott Wolin
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Staff Physicist, Jefferson Lab
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12000 Jefferson Ave
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suite 8 MS 12A1
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Newport News, VA 23606
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 757-269-7365
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ================================================================================
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Zisis Papandreou | email: zisis at uregina.ca
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Department of Physics | tel. : (306) 585-5379
>>>>>>>>>>>> University of Regina | tel. : (306) 585-4149
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regina, SK S4S 0A2 | fax. : (306) 585-5659
>>>>>>>>>>>> World Wide Web: http://www.phys.uregina.ca/sparro/zisis/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Zisis Papandreou | email: zisis at uregina.ca
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Department of Physics | tel. : (306) 585-5379
>>>>>>>>>> University of Regina | tel. : (306) 585-4149
>>>>>>>>>> Regina, SK S4S 0A2 | fax. : (306) 585-5659
>>>>>>>>>> World Wide Web: http://www.phys.uregina.ca/sparro/zisis/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>> Dr. Zisis Papandreou | email: zisis at uregina.ca
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Department of Physics | tel. : (306) 585-5379
>>>>>>>> University of Regina | tel. : (306) 585-4149
>>>>>>>> Regina, SK S4S 0A2 | fax. : (306) 585-5659
>>>>>>>> World Wide Web: http://www.phys.uregina.ca/sparro/zisis/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David Lawrence Ph.D.
>>>>>>> Staff Scientist Office: (757)269-5567 [[[
>>>>>>> [ [ [ Jefferson Lab Pager: (757)584-5567
>>>>>>> [ [ [ [ [ [ http://www.jlab.org/~davidl davidl at jlab.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [[[ [[ [[ [[[
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> David Lawrence Ph.D.
>>>>> Staff Scientist Office: (757)269-5567 [[[ [
>>>>> [ [ Jefferson Lab Pager: (757)584-5567 [ [ [
>>>>> [ [ [ http://www.jlab.org/~davidl davidl at jlab.org
>>>>> [[[ [[ [[ [[[
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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