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Hi Fernando,</div>
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I was under the impression that the crates already are set to turn off above 80F</div>
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Cheers,<br>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Tim Whitlatch </p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Hall D Engineer<br>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Jefferson Lab</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">757-269-5087<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Fernando Barbosa <barbosa@jlab.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 18, 2019 8:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Timothy Whitlatch <whitey@jlab.org>; Alexander Somov <somov@jlab.org>; halld-cal@jlab.org <halld-cal@jlab.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Fernando Barbosa <barbosa@jlab.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Halld-cal] Minutes from yesterday's meeting</font>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Hello Tim,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Thanks for reviewing the logs. This certainly could explain the increased failure rate of these modules. I will follow up closely on the diagnostics of these 5 fADC250s that failed
to see if there is anything that points to an overheating condition.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">It would also be very helpful if Alex could check the DAQ logs for the temperature readout of the FPGAs for this same period.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">One area that needs to be addressed in this regard is to implement a protocol that turns crates off when the temperature in the hall reaches some set point: the crates would stay
off until the temperature in the hall would decrease below the set point and someone would then need to re-enable them (an administrative control). I will talk to Hovanes and Nick.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Best regards,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Fernando</span></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Timothy Whitlatch <whitey@jlab.org>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 18, 2019 7:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Somov <somov@jlab.org>; Fernando Barbosa <barbosa@jlab.org>; halld-cal@jlab.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Halld-cal] Minutes from yesterday's meeting</span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Hi All,</span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">In looking back at the archive data, there is only 1 time the hall reached above 80F this spring through fall. October 12 the temp reached 84F and was above 80F for about 12 hours. This is when the
overhead door was left open after a tour.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Cheers,</span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Tim Whitlatch </span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">757-269-5087</span></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> Halld-cal <<a href="mailto:halld-cal-bounces@jlab.org">halld-cal-bounces@jlab.org</a>>
on behalf of Alexander Somov <<a href="mailto:somov@jlab.org">somov@jlab.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 15, 2019 6:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Fernando Barbosa <<a href="mailto:barbosa@jlab.org">barbosa@jlab.org</a>>;
<a href="mailto:halld-cal@jlab.org">halld-cal@jlab.org</a> <<a href="mailto:halld-cal@jlab.org">halld-cal@jlab.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Halld-cal] Minutes from yesterday's meeting</span> </p>
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Hi Fernando,<br>
<br>
As we have discussed, the temperature accident happened<br>
not the first time. After the first accident, when we <br>
melted a CTP module by running a fan speed at ~2000 rpms, <br>
I took many trigger-related (and other) crates from the <br>
PID control and ran them at 4500+ rpm.<br>
<br>
After the overheating problems during last year, Hai Dong <br>
suggested to run the fan at about 5000 rpm for the sake of <br>
CTPs, and I agree with him. There should be enough margin <br>
to cool the crate down if the temperature in the hall <br>
increases.<br>
<br>
<br>
The CCAL crate, positioned on the same FCAL platform <br>
runs at about 5000 rpm for more than a year, I didn't <br>
have any problems with it so far.<br>
<br>
<br>
I belive that the PID fan threshold should be set to at <br>
least 4500 rpm for all crates (indeed it's a choice of <br>
sub-detector groups, who should be responsible for <br>
damaged electronics as well).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Sasha<br>
<br>
<br>
P.S. Indeed, there could be other not temperature-related <br>
issues, but this is the most likely one.<br>
<br>
<br>
Rad damage can be an issue as well, but then modules should <br>
fail "continuously" during the run, likely with various symptoms, <br>
which seems to be not the case. We got 5 modules dead after <br>
the run. The rad dose in the tagger hall is also significantly <br>
larger than in Hall D; I haven't seen such problems with fadcs <br>
there.</p>
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On 11/15/19 3:10 PM, Fernando Barbosa wrote:</p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hello Elton, all,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Some notes regarding the paragraph below:</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">a)</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The overheating is not an issue unless the hall temperature increases significantly above the specs. For a full description, refer to GlueX-doc-2752. My recommendation has always been to
operate the fans fixed at 4,000 RPM or in the 3,000 RPM to 5,000 RPM range under PID control.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">b)</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">During the Summer, we experienced some unexplained failures. Nick recently informed me that there were two instances when the temperature in the hall was excessive duw to HVAC failures
or door open for long periods of time. Nick has suggested some additional interlock controls. It would be instructive if someone could check the environmental logs and others since the end of the Spring run.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">c)</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The last sentence is not correct. Spreading the modules apart will not provide better cooling as the thermal radiative losses are insignificant compared to the convective cooling efficiency.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">d)</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">There is also the possibility of radiation damage on the D2 platform due to changing experimental conditions (prototype tests of the COMCAL and others). This was also brought up by CAEN
during maintenance of failed HV controllers. I have Alexandre D. to look into this in detail from logs of radiation detectors he manages.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Best regards,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Fernando</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><img id="x_x_Picture_x0020_1" style="width:11.9166in; height:1.7083in" width="1144" height="164" border="0" data-outlook-trace="F:1|T:1" src="cid:image001.png@01D59DEC.5773FEC0"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Halld-cal <a href="mailto:halld-cal-bounces@jlab.org"><halld-cal-bounces@jlab.org></a> On Behalf Of Elton Smith<br>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2019 1:25 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:halld-cal@jlab.org">halld-cal@jlab.org</a><br>
Subject: [Halld-cal] Minutes from yesterday's meeting</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Dear collaborators,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I have posted the minutes from yesterday's meeting on the wiki at
<a href="https://halldweb.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/Nov_14,_2019_Calorimeter#Minutes">
<span style="color:windowtext; text-decoration:none">https://halldweb.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/Nov_14,_2019_Calorimeter#Minutes</span></a>.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Cheers, Elton.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">--</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Elton Smith</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Jefferson Lab MS 12H3</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">12000 Jefferson Ave STE 4</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Newport News, VA 23606</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">(757)269-7625</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">(757)269-6331 fax</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">_______________________________________________</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Halld-cal mailing list</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:Halld-cal@jlab.org"><span style="color:windowtext; text-decoration:none">Halld-cal@jlab.org</span></a></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/halld-cal"><span style="color:windowtext; text-decoration:none">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/halld-cal</span></a></span></p>
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<pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";">_______________________________________________</pre>
<pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";">Halld-cal mailing list</pre>
<pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";"><a href="mailto:Halld-cal@jlab.org">Halld-cal@jlab.org</a></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";"><a href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/halld-cal">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/halld-cal</a></pre>
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