<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<br>
Hi Graham.<br>
<br>
Certainly we should be able to put forward a set of
requirements. I'd have to point out though that we are already
developing expertise using certain GRID technologies between at
least 4 of our universities (if I'm counting right). The thing that
has me confused though is that this idea of it taking so much
manpower to support it. I know of a certain collaborator in GlueX
who, in addition to maintaining a full teaching schedule,
maintaining his own computing farm, and heading a group responsible
for one of our major detector systems in GlueX, has still managed to
get his farm on the GRID and use it as well as other GRID resources
for simulation studies. I can't imagine him spending more that
15-20% of his time on this. Why do we expect it to take a JLab IT
person (with a CS degree) to have to spend so much more time? I must
be missing something.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
-David<br>
<br>
On 2/15/11 3:09 PM, Heyes Graham wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:A47CCB00-E7A8-4E8D-AB76-9703381FBBA1@jlab.org"
type="cite">Physics division does maintain quite a few packages
but it is done by gentleman's agreement, i.e. nobody is explicitly
paid to support ROOT etc. The issue with GRID is that it is big
and ugly enough that you will have to pay out someone (probably
more than one) to support GRID at the JLab end if we are anything
other than a client on someone else's GRID implementation.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Without putting words in his mouth I think that is what Chip
was talking about at the end of last week. We should write down
what resources we (Physics in 12 GeV era) expect to have
available to us offsite, what rates we need to those sites and
other related parameters. Again, implementation neutral so not
explicitly GRID. If it turns out that GRID is the best way to go
then so be it. The perennial argument is that it isn't
worthwhile to the lab to pay salaries and overhead for a couple
of people to support something unless it gives the lab access to
resources that are at least greater than you could buy with the
same funds. So at least that argument needs to be fleshed out.
What exactly is on the non-JLab end of such a "GIRD"?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There'll probably be much discussion of this...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Graham</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Feb 15, 2011, at 2:53 pm, David Lawrence wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Hi Mark,<br>
<br>
This is a great start. I have one quick question: have
we verified that the reconstruction rate for the 10^8 data
is the same as the 10^7? Even though the event rate to
disk will be the same, I can imagine the 10^8 data being
busier and therefore, take longer to process. They are
hopefully comparable, but we should verify it if it hasn't
been already. <br>
<br>
I'd also like to follow up a little on the discussion
started a while back on the how the GRID is to be included
in the computing plan. It seems clear that our
collaborators feel this will be an important part of the
GlueX experiment's operation. Chip has indicated though
that supporting it from the JLab side has significant
resource costs and must be clearly justified. Has there
been any discussion as to what exactly these costs are? I
thought from earlier conversations that this was a
manpower cost on the JLab side, but at this point, I don't
know what is required. The Physics Division maintains
several software packages already (ROOT, CERNLIB,
Xerces,...) are there additional resources besides
software maintenance? I know the our original CDR called
for something like an OC24 connection due to the
anticipated high bandwidth usage. Are there other hardware
costs involved?<br>
<br>
We'll need to start gathering cost information as we
develop the benefit argument in order to make a valid
cost-benefit analysis.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
-David<br>
<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font
class="Apple-style-span" color="#144fae"><br>
</font></font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<pre wrap="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
Halld-offline mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Halld-offline@jlab.org">Halld-offline@jlab.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/halld-offline">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/halld-offline</a></pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>