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wow, <br>
that is the same epoxy that is use in boat building together with
fiberglass.<br>
<br>
so a 45 degree C is the max it seems.<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
Beni<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/31/23 16:08, Timothy Whitlatch
wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:SA9PR09MB5245CFE0A23B36E4F65D2C8BB5A0A@SA9PR09MB5245.namprd09.prod.outlook.com">
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Hi All,</div>
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<br>
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It looks like the weakest link is the West System 105/205 epoxy.
It is good to about 50C.</div>
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<br>
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Cheers,<br>
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<p style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Timothy Whitlatch
PE (Virginia)<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Hall D Chief
Engineer<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Jefferson Lab</p>
<p style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">757-269-5087<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Halld-pid <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:halld-pid-bounces@jlab.org"><halld-pid-bounces@jlab.org></a> on behalf of
Werner Boeglin via Halld-pid <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org"><halld-pid@jlab.org></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 31, 2023 2:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Fernando Barbosa <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:barbosa@jlab.org"><barbosa@jlab.org></a>; Benedikt
Zihlmann <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zihlmann@jlab.org"><zihlmann@jlab.org></a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org">halld-pid@jlab.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org"><halld-pid@jlab.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Halld-pid] [EXTERNAL] Re: Start Counter
"warming"</font>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hi Beni,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">When
warming the detector remember that the scintillators are
held together with a self-clinging plastic packing wrap. I
do not know how this reacts when it gets warm (I think we
still have some of the material here somewhere), we do not
want the detectors getting loose or too tight. Also, the
rohacell foam support and the carbon fiber inner tube are
glued to the aluminum mandril and you might want to ask
the engineers about the temperature properties of the glue
that was used.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Kind
regards</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Werner</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Helvetica; color:black">Werner
Boeglin</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Helvetica; color:black">Professor</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Helvetica; color:black">Dept. of
Physics, Florida International University</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Helvetica; color:black">CP236 , MMC</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Helvetica; color:black">11200, SW
8th Street</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Helvetica; color:black">Miami, FL
33199</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Helvetica; color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Helvetica; color:black">phone: (305)
348 1711</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Helvetica; color:black"><a href="mailto:boeglinw@fiu.edu" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">boeglinw@fiu.edu</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">Halld-pid
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:halld-pid-bounces@jlab.org"><halld-pid-bounces@jlab.org></a> on behalf of
Fernando Barbosa via Halld-pid
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org"><halld-pid@jlab.org></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, October 31, 2023 at 2:05 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Benedikt Zihlmann
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zihlmann@jlab.org"><zihlmann@jlab.org></a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org">halld-pid@jlab.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org"><halld-pid@jlab.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Halld-pid] Start Counter
"warming"</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Note:
This message originated from outside the FIU
Faculty/Staff email system.<br>
<br>
<br>
Hello Beni,<br>
<br>
Looking at the plots, I agree with your assessment
of significant gain degradation. However, I am a bit
dubious that the gain can be recovered by that much
via annealing. This will be an interesting test.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Fernando<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Fernando Barbosa <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:barbosa@jlab.org"><barbosa@jlab.org></a><br>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2023 8:12 AM<br>
To: Benedikt Zihlmann <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zihlmann@jlab.org"><zihlmann@jlab.org></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org">halld-pid@jlab.org</a><br>
Cc: Fernando Barbosa <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:barbosa@jlab.org"><barbosa@jlab.org></a><br>
Subject: RE: Start Counter "warming"<br>
<br>
Hello Beni,<br>
<br>
I suggest 40 to 60 degree C and 1 month of annealing
should provide considerable recovery. I would also
suggest keeping the bias off.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Fernando<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Benedikt Zihlmann <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zihlmann@jlab.org"><zihlmann@jlab.org></a><br>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2023 7:20 AM<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org">halld-pid@jlab.org</a>; Fernando Barbosa
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:barbosa@jlab.org"><barbosa@jlab.org></a><br>
Subject: Start Counter "warming"<br>
<br>
Hi Fernando, Werner,<br>
<br>
in view of the fact that we do see a significant
degradation in the gain of the Start counter
response over the years I was thinking if active
"annealing" may help.<br>
see also:<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/halldweb.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/Start_Counter_Operations*Run_Period_Winter_2023__;Iw!!FjuHKAHQs5udqho!Nk-OYfMHDbkBaRlkuKDCils8sI-c1M2TiRC4IK3Omz3pN4U1-69uADQTkIB3RpB9iK3wYcztgQCBt_1Rmrw$" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://halldweb.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/Start_Counter_Operations*Run_Period_Winter_2023__;Iw!!FjuHKAHQs5udqho!Nk-OYfMHDbkBaRlkuKDCils8sI-c1M2TiRC4IK3Omz3pN4U1-69uADQTkIB3RpB9iK3wYcztgQCBt_1Rmrw$</a><br>
<br>
It is not clear why this drop in gain occurred. It
does not seem to be related to a loss in light since
the ration of width divided by mean-amplitude has
not changed much, and in the nose area not at all
(this is the middle histogram of the plot). So the
source of the loss in gain may be related to the
SiPM photo sensor itself?<br>
<br>
We know "annealing" helps with regards to dark
current but I am not aware of recovering gain.<br>
An active annealing can be employed by covering the
photo sensor area with a "heating blanket"<br>
and warm up the region to a certain temperature. The
question is what temperature can be considered
"save" with regards to the PCB board and electronics
as well as the plastic scintillators.<br>
<br>
how high in temperature do you think can we go
without affecting these parts? 70 degree Celsius or
even more?<br>
The time frame for such an "annealing" attempt would
be of order 1 month.<br>
<br>
any comments?<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
Beni<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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