<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="elementToProof">
The glass transition temperature is listed as 52C<br>
</div>
<div class="elementToProof">
<div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div id="Signature">
<div>
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<p style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Timothy Whitlatch PE (Virginia)<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Hall D Chief Engineer<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Jefferson Lab</p>
<p style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">757-269-5087<br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="appendonsend"></div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Benedikt Zihlmann <zihlmann@jlab.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 31, 2023 4:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Timothy Whitlatch <whitey@jlab.org>; Fernando Barbosa <barbosa@jlab.org>; halld-pid@jlab.org <halld-pid@jlab.org>; Werner Boeglin <boeglinw@fiu.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Start Counter "warming"</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>wow, <br>
that is the same epoxy that is use in boat building together with fiberglass.<br>
<br>
so a 45 degree C is the max it seems.<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
Beni<br>
<br>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 10/31/23 16:08, Timothy Whitlatch wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"><style type="text/css" style="display:none">
<!--
p
{margin-top:0;
margin-bottom:0}
-->
</style>
<div class="x_elementToProof" style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi All,</div>
<div class="x_elementToProof" style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div class="x_elementToProof" style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
It looks like the weakest link is the West System 105/205 epoxy. It is good to about 50C.</div>
<div class="x_elementToProof" style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div class="x_elementToProof" style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Cheers,<br>
</div>
<div class="x_elementToProof">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div id="x_Signature">
<div>
<div id="x_divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<p style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Timothy Whitlatch PE (Virginia)<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Hall D Chief Engineer<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Jefferson Lab</p>
<p style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">757-269-5087<br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Halld-pid
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:halld-pid-bounces@jlab.org"><halld-pid-bounces@jlab.org></a> on behalf of Werner Boeglin via Halld-pid
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org"><halld-pid@jlab.org></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 31, 2023 2:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Fernando Barbosa <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:barbosa@jlab.org">
<barbosa@jlab.org></a>; Benedikt Zihlmann <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zihlmann@jlab.org">
<zihlmann@jlab.org></a>; <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org">
halld-pid@jlab.org</a> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org">
<halld-pid@jlab.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Halld-pid] [EXTERNAL] Re: Start Counter "warming"</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<style>
<!--
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math"}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri}
p.x_x_MsoNormal, li.x_x_MsoNormal, div.x_x_MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif}
a:link, span.x_x_MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline}
span.x_x_EmailStyle19
{font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext}
.x_x_MsoChpDefault
{font-size:10.0pt}
-->
</style>
<div lang="EN-US" style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div class="x_x_WordSection1">
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hi Beni,</span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">When warming the detector remember that the scintillators are held together with a self-clinging plastic packing wrap. I do not know how this reacts when it gets warm (I think we still have some of the
material here somewhere), we do not want the detectors getting loose or too tight. Also, the rohacell foam support and the carbon fiber inner tube are glued to the aluminum mandril and you might want to ask the engineers about the temperature properties of
the glue that was used.</span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Kind regards</span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Werner</span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Helvetica; color:black">Werner Boeglin</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Helvetica; color:black">Professor</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Helvetica; color:black">Dept. of Physics, Florida International University</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Helvetica; color:black">CP236 , MMC</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Helvetica; color:black">11200, SW 8th Street</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Helvetica; color:black">Miami, FL 33199</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Helvetica; color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Helvetica; color:black">phone: (305) 348 1711</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Helvetica; color:black"><a href="mailto:boeglinw@fiu.edu"><span style="color:#0563C1">boeglinw@fiu.edu</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<div id="x_x_mail-editor-reference-message-container">
<div>
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">Halld-pid <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:halld-pid-bounces@jlab.org">
<halld-pid-bounces@jlab.org></a> on behalf of Fernando Barbosa via Halld-pid <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org">
<halld-pid@jlab.org></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, October 31, 2023 at 2:05 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Benedikt Zihlmann <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zihlmann@jlab.org">
<zihlmann@jlab.org></a>, <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org">
halld-pid@jlab.org</a> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org">
<halld-pid@jlab.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Halld-pid] Start Counter "warming"</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Note: This message originated from outside the FIU Faculty/Staff email system.<br>
<br>
<br>
Hello Beni,<br>
<br>
Looking at the plots, I agree with your assessment of significant gain degradation. However, I am a bit dubious that the gain can be recovered by that much via annealing. This will be an interesting test.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Fernando<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Fernando Barbosa <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:barbosa@jlab.org">
<barbosa@jlab.org></a><br>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2023 8:12 AM<br>
To: Benedikt Zihlmann <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zihlmann@jlab.org">
<zihlmann@jlab.org></a>; <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org">
halld-pid@jlab.org</a><br>
Cc: Fernando Barbosa <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:barbosa@jlab.org">
<barbosa@jlab.org></a><br>
Subject: RE: Start Counter "warming"<br>
<br>
Hello Beni,<br>
<br>
I suggest 40 to 60 degree C and 1 month of annealing should provide considerable recovery. I would also suggest keeping the bias off.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Fernando<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Benedikt Zihlmann <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zihlmann@jlab.org">
<zihlmann@jlab.org></a><br>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2023 7:20 AM<br>
To: <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org">halld-pid@jlab.org</a>; Fernando Barbosa
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:barbosa@jlab.org"><barbosa@jlab.org></a><br>
Subject: Start Counter "warming"<br>
<br>
Hi Fernando, Werner,<br>
<br>
in view of the fact that we do see a significant degradation in the gain of the Start counter response over the years I was thinking if active "annealing" may help.<br>
see also:<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/halldweb.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/Start_Counter_Operations*Run_Period_Winter_2023__;Iw!!FjuHKAHQs5udqho!Nk-OYfMHDbkBaRlkuKDCils8sI-c1M2TiRC4IK3Omz3pN4U1-69uADQTkIB3RpB9iK3wYcztgQCBt_1Rmrw$">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://halldweb.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/Start_Counter_Operations*Run_Period_Winter_2023__;Iw!!FjuHKAHQs5udqho!Nk-OYfMHDbkBaRlkuKDCils8sI-c1M2TiRC4IK3Omz3pN4U1-69uADQTkIB3RpB9iK3wYcztgQCBt_1Rmrw$</a><br>
<br>
It is not clear why this drop in gain occurred. It does not seem to be related to a loss in light since the ration of width divided by mean-amplitude has not changed much, and in the nose area not at all (this is the middle histogram of the plot). So the source
of the loss in gain may be related to the SiPM photo sensor itself?<br>
<br>
We know "annealing" helps with regards to dark current but I am not aware of recovering gain.<br>
An active annealing can be employed by covering the photo sensor area with a "heating blanket"<br>
and warm up the region to a certain temperature. The question is what temperature can be considered "save" with regards to the PCB board and electronics as well as the plastic scintillators.<br>
<br>
how high in temperature do you think can we go without affecting these parts? 70 degree Celsius or even more?<br>
The time frame for such an "annealing" attempt would be of order 1 month.<br>
<br>
any comments?<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
Beni<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Halld-pid mailing list<br>
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Halld-pid@jlab.org">Halld-pid@jlab.org</a><br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/halld-pid__;!!FjuHKAHQs5udqho!Nk-OYfMHDbkBaRlkuKDCils8sI-c1M2TiRC4IK3Omz3pN4U1-69uADQTkIB3RpB9iK3wYcztgQCBXqSslb8$">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/halld-pid__;!!FjuHKAHQs5udqho!Nk-OYfMHDbkBaRlkuKDCils8sI-c1M2TiRC4IK3Omz3pN4U1-69uADQTkIB3RpB9iK3wYcztgQCBXqSslb8$</a></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</body>
</html>