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Hi Folks,</div>
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<br>
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Another thing to check is the alignment of the SiPMs with the scintillators. My understanding is there is a carefully adjusted airgap. The detector has been handled by now numerous times, removed and again inserted into the detector. Just slight misalignments
might lead to a loss in transmission to the SiPMs. </div>
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Beni makes the argument that sigma/peak does not change, which seems indicative of primary photon yield not having changed. But then, the paddles have quite some counterintuitive light collection as a function of z; i.e., the transmission seems to be best from
the nose section. There are regions where sigma/peak is changing.</div>
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Other questions: would 45 C even be close enough to expect some annealing to happen. Naively, I would have expected the required temperature to be in the hundreds of degrees C.</div>
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<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Best,</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Joerg</span></div>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Dr. Joerg Reinhold, Professor (he/him/his)</span></div>
<div style="text-align: left; margin: 0px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Department of Physics</span></div>
<div style="text-align: left; margin: 0px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Florida International University</span></div>
<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Phone: 305-348-6422 | reinhold@fiu.edu</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"></span><span style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Halld-pid <halld-pid-bounces@jlab.org> on behalf of Timothy Whitlatch via Halld-pid <halld-pid@jlab.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 1, 2023 08:53<br>
<b>To:</b> Benedikt Zihlmann <zihlmann@jlab.org>; Fernando Barbosa <barbosa@jlab.org>; halld-pid@jlab.org <halld-pid@jlab.org>; Werner Boeglin <boeglinw@fiu.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Halld-pid] Start Counter "warming"</span>
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The glass transition temperature is listed as 52C</div>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Timothy Whitlatch PE (Virginia)</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Hall D Chief Engineer</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Jefferson Lab</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">757-269-5087</p>
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Benedikt Zihlmann <zihlmann@jlab.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 31, 2023 4:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Timothy Whitlatch <whitey@jlab.org>; Fernando Barbosa <barbosa@jlab.org>; halld-pid@jlab.org <halld-pid@jlab.org>; Werner Boeglin <boeglinw@fiu.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Start Counter "warming"</span>
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<div style="direction: ltr;">wow,<br>
that is the same epoxy that is use in boat building together with fiberglass.<br>
<br>
so a 45 degree C is the max it seems.<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
Beni<br>
<br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">On 10/31/23 16:08, Timothy Whitlatch wrote:</div>
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Hi All,</div>
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<br>
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It looks like the weakest link is the West System 105/205 epoxy. It is good to about 50C.</div>
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<br>
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Cheers,</div>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Timothy Whitlatch PE (Virginia)</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Hall D Chief Engineer</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Jefferson Lab</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">757-269-5087</p>
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<div id="x_x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Halld-pid
<a href="mailto:halld-pid-bounces@jlab.org" id="OWAbd3cd3cb-891e-4f44-365c-7bcac3be5e77" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink">
<halld-pid-bounces@jlab.org></a> on behalf of Werner Boeglin via Halld-pid <a href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org" id="OWAcbff8aac-2615-6589-5421-9ffa22e157cf" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink">
<halld-pid@jlab.org></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 31, 2023 2:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Fernando Barbosa <a href="mailto:barbosa@jlab.org" id="OWA64be4fd6-b077-518a-d56d-08182debe9be" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink">
<barbosa@jlab.org></a>; Benedikt Zihlmann <a href="mailto:zihlmann@jlab.org" id="OWA1bfea26e-5157-9eee-2d41-c4a63f21edc3" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink">
<zihlmann@jlab.org></a>; <a href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org" id="OWA32b2e482-2bc9-1921-d591-91ba379d2190" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated OWAAutoLink">
halld-pid@jlab.org</a> <a href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org" id="OWA5362eb65-e46a-1c5f-1915-e7f6ca00ec0e" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink">
<halld-pid@jlab.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Halld-pid] [EXTERNAL] Re: Start Counter "warming"</span>
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<p style="direction: ltr; margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Hi Beni,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">When warming the detector remember that the scintillators are held together with a self-clinging plastic packing wrap. I do not know how this reacts when it gets warm (I think we still have some of the material here somewhere),
we do not want the detectors getting loose or too tight. Also, the rohacell foam support and the carbon fiber inner tube are glued to the aluminum mandril and you might want to ask the engineers about the temperature properties of the glue that was used.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Kind regards</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="direction: ltr; margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Werner</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="direction: ltr; margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: black;">Werner Boeglin</span></p>
<p style="direction: ltr; margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: black;">Professor</span></p>
<p style="direction: ltr; margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: black;">Dept. of Physics, Florida International University</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: black;">CP236 , MMC</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: black;">11200, SW 8th Street</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: black;">Miami, FL 33199</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="direction: ltr; margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: black;">phone: (305) 348 1711</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);"><a href="mailto:boeglinw@fiu.edu" id="OWAd173cd01-26bb-cd4a-1c51-25f966fbfb81" class="OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">boeglinw@fiu.edu</a></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="direction: ltr; margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="direction: ltr; margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<div id="x_x_x_mail-editor-reference-message-container">
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><b>From: </b>Halld-pid <a href="mailto:halld-pid-bounces@jlab.org" id="OWA0271d2b4-634f-afff-74eb-df2a6b492b0d" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<halld-pid-bounces@jlab.org></a> on behalf of Fernando Barbosa via Halld-pid <a href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org" id="OWA9a5aec37-945b-924d-11ab-9b092133432a" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<halld-pid@jlab.org></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, October 31, 2023 at 2:05 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Benedikt Zihlmann <a href="mailto:zihlmann@jlab.org" id="OWAe5b7a3bb-2979-1c4f-8f19-944e3b55b26b" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<zihlmann@jlab.org></a>, <a href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org" id="OWAf743cae8-c052-1ba3-db37-6ba8e5250688" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
halld-pid@jlab.org</a> <a href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org" id="OWAffcb5667-427a-5bd7-46ea-6b5377631481" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<halld-pid@jlab.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Halld-pid] Start Counter "warming"</span></p>
</div>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Note: This message originated from outside the FIU Faculty/Staff email system.<br>
<br>
<br>
Hello Beni,<br>
<br>
Looking at the plots, I agree with your assessment of significant gain degradation. However, I am a bit dubious that the gain can be recovered by that much via annealing. This will be an interesting test.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Fernando<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Fernando Barbosa <a href="mailto:barbosa@jlab.org" id="OWA64147f27-d7ea-0138-68e7-04b05439091d" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<barbosa@jlab.org></a><br>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2023 8:12 AM<br>
To: Benedikt Zihlmann <a href="mailto:zihlmann@jlab.org" id="OWAd4213a2a-5caa-c6a2-36a9-36b3544c92ca" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<zihlmann@jlab.org></a>; <a href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org" id="OWA7ad01daa-e26b-ff25-1726-3e8b4d308813" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
halld-pid@jlab.org</a><br>
Cc: Fernando Barbosa <a href="mailto:barbosa@jlab.org" id="OWA987ab1a1-aed0-f845-70c9-b5a057737581" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<barbosa@jlab.org></a><br>
Subject: RE: Start Counter "warming"<br>
<br>
Hello Beni,<br>
<br>
I suggest 40 to 60 degree C and 1 month of annealing should provide considerable recovery. I would also suggest keeping the bias off.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Fernando<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Benedikt Zihlmann <a href="mailto:zihlmann@jlab.org" id="OWAbd8d5ba8-bb7d-d8dd-6b05-7bedc7abb0d9" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<zihlmann@jlab.org></a><br>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2023 7:20 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:halld-pid@jlab.org" id="OWAf9e0eabb-831d-f6e3-a915-5ac0fc503c81" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
halld-pid@jlab.org</a>; Fernando Barbosa <a href="mailto:barbosa@jlab.org" id="OWA212a9f40-180a-1ba5-c695-769dd2bb8a07" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<barbosa@jlab.org></a><br>
Subject: Start Counter "warming"<br>
<br>
Hi Fernando, Werner,<br>
<br>
in view of the fact that we do see a significant degradation in the gain of the Start counter response over the years I was thinking if active "annealing" may help.<br>
see also:<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/halldweb.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/Start_Counter_Operations*Run_Period_Winter_2023__;Iw!!FjuHKAHQs5udqho!Nk-OYfMHDbkBaRlkuKDCils8sI-c1M2TiRC4IK3Omz3pN4U1-69uADQTkIB3RpB9iK3wYcztgQCBt_1Rmrw$" id="OWA9cc7b3cb-3f1b-2845-e6c8-d53ad1cfd1ec" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://halldweb.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/Start_Counter_Operations*Run_Period_Winter_2023__;Iw!!FjuHKAHQs5udqho!Nk-OYfMHDbkBaRlkuKDCils8sI-c1M2TiRC4IK3Omz3pN4U1-69uADQTkIB3RpB9iK3wYcztgQCBt_1Rmrw$</a><br>
<br>
It is not clear why this drop in gain occurred. It does not seem to be related to a loss in light since the ration of width divided by mean-amplitude has not changed much, and in the nose area not at all (this is the middle histogram of the plot). So the source
of the loss in gain may be related to the SiPM photo sensor itself?<br>
<br>
We know "annealing" helps with regards to dark current but I am not aware of recovering gain.<br>
An active annealing can be employed by covering the photo sensor area with a "heating blanket"<br>
and warm up the region to a certain temperature. The question is what temperature can be considered "save" with regards to the PCB board and electronics as well as the plastic scintillators.<br>
<br>
how high in temperature do you think can we go without affecting these parts? 70 degree Celsius or even more?<br>
The time frame for such an "annealing" attempt would be of order 1 month.<br>
<br>
any comments?<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
Beni<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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