[Halld-tagger] Fwd: RE: goniometer quote and design

Thu Mar 8 10:01:30 EST 2012

Ken,
the price is actually not high at all if it includes the higher resolution 
stages - and motors+gears operational at 10^-6T.
For sure we want ~2 motors as spares (~$4K?) - but might be still below 
$80k - and can design a smaller vacuum box, which is much better than the 
Hall-B solution.
Thanks for your efforts
Franz

On Thu, 8 Mar 2012, Hovanes Egiyan wrote:

> Hi Ken,
> Thanks for taking care of this, It's great that Newport is moving forward 
> with this.
> Does this meet our specs for angular resolution though?
> As I remember, we specified two high resolution rotational stages
> with 0.0002 deg, and one 340deg-range stage with 0.01 deg resolution.
> The list in your message includes two wide-range stages and one
> higher precision 45deg stage, but which has only ~17 microrad resolution.
> From looking at their stages, it looks like BGS80PP  type of stages would
> match our resolution specs, but if they had vacuum compatibility options
> and load capacity. On their web site they say that they can provide the
> vacuum-compatible stages if it is not specified on their page.
>
> As for the controller, we bough one similar to what is mentioned there
> for controlling other motors in the hall, but with 8 axis, XPS-C8, and soon 
> we
> will start learning how to include it into our slow controls.
> Hovanes.
>
>
> On 03/08/2012 04:32 AM, Ken Livingston wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I've forwarded the most recent email from Newport, which allows me to get 
>> some idea of the cost of the goniometer.
>> My estimates for the motion stages during last week's call were very much 
>> on the low side - I guess I looked at one of the cheaper axes on their web 
>> site. Approximate prices are:
>> 
>> Goniometer motion stages based on current layout:  $43k
>> 
>> Drivers and controller: $12k
>> 
>> That makes a total of $65k, but that doesn't include spares or the cost of 
>> them putting the thing together for us - and probably not tax either.
>> 
>> 
>> The costs are high because this equipment is vacuum compatible to 10-6 
>> Torr.
>> I'm assuming that we'll need this level of vacuum compatibility, and that 
>> the goniometer will be in the beamline vacuum which will be maintained up 
>> to the tagger focal plane.
>> 
>> Please let me have any comment or questions you have on this.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Ken
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: 	RE: goniometer quote and design
>> Date: 	Thu, 8 Mar 2012 01:42:09 +0000
>> From: 	Dinh, Phong <Phong.Dinh at newport.com> 
>> <mailto:Phong.Dinh at newport.com>
>> To: 	Kenneth Livingston <Kenneth.Livingston at glasgow.ac.uk> 
>> <mailto:Kenneth.Livingston at glasgow.ac.uk>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hello Ken,
>> 
>> I’ve listed the stages below that I believe will be potential for this 
>> system.  And they are linked to our website, from there you can get the 
>> STEP files.
>> 
>> Axis 1: MTM150PE1V6 <http://search.newport.com/?q=*&x2=sku&q2=MTM150PE1BV6>
>> 
>> Axis 2: MTM150PE1V6 <http://search.newport.com/?q=*&x2=sku&q2=MTM150PE1BV6>
>> 
>> Axis 3: UTS50PPV6 <http://search.newport.com/?q=*&x2=sku&q2=URS50BPPV6>
>> 
>> Axis 4: UTS75PPV6 <http://search.newport.com/?q=*&x2=sku&q2=URS75BPPV6>
>> 
>> Axis 5: BGM120PEV6 <http://search.newport.com/?q=*&x2=sku&q2=BGM120PEV6>
>> 
>> The XPS-C6 <http://search.newport.com/?q=*&x2=sku&q2=XPS-C6> would be the 
>> recommended controller and the driver cards would be (5) XPS-DRV01 
>> <http://search.newport.com/?q=*&x2=sku&q2=XPS-DRV01>.
>> 
>> With the XPS controller the communication is now through Ethernet. The XPS 
>> does have drivers for other software such as LabVIEW, Matlab.
>> 
>> Also it does contain a GUI and you can develop TCL scripts. Many options 
>> and you can find more details from the link under Downloads.
>> 
>> I do have a question, as I have been assuming vacuum level at 10-6 Torr, is 
>> this correct?
>> 
>> If you do need a quote for the above parts with assembly, I can provide 
>> that for now until I can gather more information about a vacuum version of 
>> the GTS30V <http://search.newport.com/?q=*&x2=sku&q2=GTS30V>.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Phong
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ken Livingston [mailto:Kenneth.Livingston at glasgow.ac.uk]
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 1:51 AM
>> To: Dinh, Phong
>> Subject: Re: goniometer quote and design
>> 
>> Hi Phong,
>> 
>> We discussed the drawing you sent, but like me the others wanted more
>> 
>> details. Ideally, we'd like to get rid of the very large vertical stage
>> 
>> which would dictate the size of the vacuum chamber.
>> 
>> I'd like to know which motor stages from the Newport Range are in your
>> 
>> current design, so that we can look at specifications and prices. Can
>> 
>> you please let me have that information. As I said in the previous mail,
>> 
>> it would be ideal if we had access to the AUTOCAD/STEP files. :
>> 
>> "We have an autocad specialist in the group, who has developed similar
>> 
>> designs in the past using the autocad / step files which are available
>> 
>> for the THORLABS motion stages. Ideally we'd like to do the
>> 
>> configuration ourselves in autocad, using your design as a starting
>> 
>> point. Would it be possible for you to give us the information we
>> 
>> require to do this? eg step files for the different motor stages and a
>> 
>> recommendation of the possible stages we can use, and the details of
>> 
>> those which are in your drawing."
>> 
>> Controller.
>> 
>> Can you let me know which controller you advise for this system.
>> 
>> We want to be able to send sequences of commands from our own computer
>> 
>> programs - currently we do this on an RS-232 line using MM2000 type
>> 
>> controllers.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Ken
>> 
>> On 03/07/2012 01:46 AM, Dinh, Phong wrote:
>> 
>> > Hello Ken,
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > I hope your meeting went well and I'm curious of the feedback you
>> 
>> > received.
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > For the vertical stage in the back, this would be easily moved to the
>> 
>> > side to avoid the beam.
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > I'm still working with our factory to see if we can provide a vacuum
>> 
>> > compatible stage such as the VP-25X or the GTS30V. If this is possible,
>> 
>> > then as you mentioned we can would placed this between axis 3 and 4.
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > Looking forward to your feedback.
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > Thanks,
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > Phong Dinh
>> 
>> > Applications Engineer
>> 
>> > Newport Motion
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > Newport Corporation
>> 
>> > 1791 Deere Ave.
>> 
>> > Irvine, CA 92606
>> 
>> > Office: (949) 253-1819
>> 
>> > www.newport.com <http://www.newport.com>
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> >   For Motion, Think Newport!
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> 
>> > From: Ken Livingston [mailto:Kenneth.Livingston at glasgow.ac.uk]
>> 
>> > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 3:23 AM
>> 
>> > To: Dinh, Phong
>> 
>> > Cc: Anthony Clarkson; Peter Lumsden
>> 
>> > Subject: Re: goniometer quote and design
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > Hi Phong,
>> 
>> > Thanks a lot for the design drawing. I'll discuss them at monday's
>> 
>> > meeting. That's already pretty close to what we're after.
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > For ease of reference I've put some numbered labels on the axes and
>> 
>> > attached your drawing, together with my original with the same axis
>> 
>> > numbering. I've also put in a sketch of the kind of radiator wheel we'd
>> 
>> > have mounted in the center.
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > I have a few comments and questions:
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > 1.  I'd like to avoid having that big, heavy, vertical translation
>> 
>> > stage, if possible. See later comment. Also, in your current version
>> 
>> > that would block the beam - but I guess it could easily be repositioned.
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > 2. There's some flexibility in ordering of the stack. In particular, the
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > ordering of pitch and yaw is not important. So your change there is
>> 
>> > fine. We should take whatever order is easiest.
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > 3. Let me clarify what we need to be able to do, since I wasn't very
>> 
>> > specific about distances and angles:
>> 
>> > a. We need to be able select one radiator from the disc mounted within
>> 
>> > the ~50mm centre ring which the beam goes through.
>> 
>> > b. We need to be able to rotate this selected  radiator by up to +/-
>> 
>> > 45deg to get it in the azimuthal orientation we require.
>> 
>> > c. We then need to be able to translate in x and y to get this radiator
>> 
>> > into the beam. Translations of about 0-25mm in y and  +/-25 in x.
>> 
>> > d. Once a crystal radiator is in the beam line we make adjustments of
>> 
>> > typically 0 - 1 deg on pitch and yaw to get the crystal in the "zero
>> 
>> > position", where that lattice is parallel to the beam. We then make very
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > small movements (eg 0.05 deg steps) on pitch and yaw to adjust the angle
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > between the beam and the crystsal lattice.
>> 
>> > e. we also need to be able to translate the whole gonoimeter out of the
>> 
>> > beamline (eg 0-150mm).
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > This gives some flexibility in the ordering of the axes:
>> 
>> > a. Axis 1, horizontal translation should be at the bottom of the stack
>> 
>> > since it will need to translate the whole goniometer
>> 
>> > b. Axis 3, roll, should be at the top of the stack, since it will rotate
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > by +-45 - and potentially +-170.
>> 
>> > c. Axes 4 and 5, yaw and pitch, have typically very small motion away
>> 
>> > from home position (eg 1deg), so their ordering is not important. We can
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > do whatever is easiest.
>> 
>> > d. Axis 2, vertical translation of 0-25mm can really be anywhere between
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > axes 1 (horizontal translation) and axis 3 (roll).
>> 
>> >   From your diagram it looks to me like the easiest for axis 2 would be a
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > small platform in between axes 4 and 3. For example, something like
>> 
>> > VP-25X, or GTS30V.
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > We have an autocad specialist in the group, who has developed similar
>> 
>> > designs in the past using the autocad / step files which are available
>> 
>> > for the THORLABS motion stages.  Ideally we'd like to do the
>> 
>> > configuration ourselves in autocad, using your design as a starting
>> 
>> > point. Would it be possible for you to give us the information we
>> 
>> > require to do this? eg step files for the different motor stages and a
>> 
>> > recommendation of the possible stages we can use, and the details of
>> 
>> > those which are in your drawing.
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > Cheers,
>> 
>> > Ken
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> > On 03/01/2012 07:56 PM, Dinh, Phong wrote:
>> 
>> >> Hello Ken,
>> 
>> >>
>> 
>> >> Yes, I have reviewed this and the stack setup will need to be
>> 
>> > different
>> 
>> >> than the stack you provided since we don't have a vertical stage
>> 
>> > similar
>> 
>> >> to the drawing with 25mm and can handle the load of the other stages.
>> 
>> >>
>> 
>> >> I've attached just a concept drawing (not fully completed) to give you
>> 
>> >> an idea. As you will see, for the vertical translation, we will have
>> 
>> > to
>> 
>> >> mount a stage in back of the rotations to give you the min 25mm
>> 
>> > travel.
>> 
>> >> Also, I wanted to check on the stack of rotation axes. We placed the
>> 
>> >> vertical rotation(yaw) on top of the horizontal rotation(Pitch). I
>> 
>> >> wanted to check with you if this will cause any issues with your
>> 
>> >> movement sequences. The reason behind this, is due to the standard
>> 
>> >> vacuum stages and the limited of standard size we have.
>> 
>> >>
>> 
>> >> If this is an issue, I can always request and modify our other stages
>> 
>> > to
>> 
>> >> be vacuum compatible, but the lead time and pricing will reflect.
>> 
>> >>
>> 
>> >> Please let me know your feedback.
>> 
>> >>
>> 
>> >>
>> 
>> >>
>> 
>> >> Best regards,
>> 
>> >> Phong
>> 
>> >>
>> 
>> >>
>> 
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> 
>> >> From: Ken Livingston [mailto:Kenneth.Livingston at glasgow.ac.uk]
>> 
>> >> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 5:58 AM
>> 
>> >> To: Dinh, Phong
>> 
>> >> Subject: Re: goniometer quote and design
>> 
>> >>
>> 
>> >> Hi Phong,
>> 
>> >> Is there any progress with this goniometer request. I have a meeting
>> 
>> > on
>> 
>> >> Monday where I need to give an update on the status.
>> 
>> >>
>> 
>> >> Regards,
>> 
>> >> Ken
>> 
>> >>
>> 
>> >> On 02/22/2012 12:55 AM, Dinh, Phong wrote:
>> 
>> >>> Hello Ken,
>> 
>> >>>
>> 
>> >>> My name is Phong Dinh and your inquiry about a 6 axes system was
>> 
>> >>> forward to me from Mark White. I will be glad to assist you.
>> 
>> >>>
>> 
>> >>> I received the PDF file and also the Excel file that you provide and
>> 
>> > I
>> 
>> >>> am somewhat familiar with the stages.
>> 
>> >>>
>> 
>> >>> Currently these stages are obsolete so we will have to pick from the
>> 
>> >>> current inventory of stages we have now.
>> 
>> >>>
>> 
>> >>> I do not believe this will be a problem, as we should have comparable
>> 
>> >>> stages. I will look into this and provide you with a proposal and
>> 
>> >> quote.
>> 
>> >>> However, since the PDF only consisted the drawing of the 5 axis
>> 
>> > system
>> 
>> >>> and the files that I have of the older system seem to be corrupted. I
>> 
>> >>> am not able to figure out where the 6 axis needs to be.
>> 
>> >>>
>> 
>> >>> Will it be possible for you to let me know where you would like the
>> 
>> >>> additional translation stage to be? Perhaps a sketch of each axis
>> 
>> > will
>> 
>> >>> be helpful and your coordinate system.
>> 
>> >>>
>> 
>> >>> If you have any other questions, please let me know.
>> 
>> >>>
>> 
>> >>>
>> 
>> >>> Look forward to hearing from you.
>> 
>> >>>
>> 
>> >>> Thanks,
>> 
>> >>>
>> 
>> >>> *Phong Dinh**
>> 
>> >>> **Applications Engineer**
>> 
>> >>> **Newport**Motion***
>> 
>> >>>
>> 
>> >>> *Newport**Corporation**
>> 
>> >>> **1791 Deere Ave.**
>> 
>> >>> **Irvine**, CA 92606**
>> 
>> >>> **Office: (949) 253-1819**
>> 
>> >>> www.newport.com <http://www.newport.com><http://www.newport.com>   *
>> 
>> >>>
>> 
>> >>> //**//
>> 
>> >>>
>> 
>> >>> //
>> 
>> >>>
>> 
>> >>> **/Newport Corporation Family of  Brands -/**/Corion(r) //*//New
>> 
>> >> Focus(tm)
>> 
>> >>> //*//Oriel(r) Instruments //*////RichardsonGratings(tm)
>> 
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>> 
>> >>> //
>> 
>> >>>
>> 
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>

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                   Franz J. Klein, Associate Professor
                   CUA, Department of Physics
                   Washington, DC 20064
   office: Hannan Hall 206          phone: 202-319-6190
   or: Jefferson Lab,CC F-243       phone: 757-269-6672
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