[Halld] Proposed intensity scan for Fall 2018

Tue Nov 20 07:47:21 EST 2018

Hi Sasha,

> Sub-detectors may require some fine-tuning, when going to high
> rate; it is not a press key operation now (a single electronics module
> can hold the whole system). Prescaling triggers, is the simplest way to reduce uncertainties with dead time (still there could be problems).

I agree, which is why I caveated the high intensity runs to hear the detector safety and trigger perspective (which you and Lubomir provided).  The schedule could certainly be optimized for when experts are available for these high intensity tests.

> We should not ignore DAQ guys if they are ready to do tests
> (they need to come up with the beam request though).

Also agree, if there is a well defined test for the DAQ we should do it while we’re at high intensity anyway.  I put a placeholder of ~1 hr on the schedule for testing writing to 2 files.

-Justin

> On Nov 19, 2018, at 9:12 PM, Alexander Somov <somov at jlab.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> The same concern, but I guess that you have already decided on this...
> 
> Sub-detectors may require some fine-tuning, when going to high
> rate; it is not a press key operation now (a single electronics module
> can hold the whole system). Prescaling triggers, is the simplest way to reduce uncertainties with dead time (still there could be problems).
> 
> We should not ignore DAQ guys if they are ready to do tests
> (they need to come up with the beam request though).
> 
> Cheers,
>       Sasha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 19 Nov 2018, Richard Jones wrote:
> 
>> Probably would be best to prescale the main trigger, at least, otherwise we
>> could waste time fiddling with the DAQ.
>> -Richard
>> 
>> On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 1:51 PM Eugene Chudakov <gen at jlab.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Let me remind you that with the currently used DAQ software we would
>>> be limited to about 1GB/s, or about 400nA without prescaling (or somewhat
>>> lower for reliable operations).
>>> 
>>> The front-end limit would be about 80kHz, or also 400nA.
>>> 
>>> We may try to use a new DAQ software (the Sergey's version), which can go
>>> to >2GB/s. The front-end limits would still apply.
>>> 
>>> Eugene
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 19 Nov 2018, Sean Dobbs wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>> 
>>>> If the high intensity points are cheap, maybe it would be useful to have
>>> a finer grained scan, just in case we find something that we need to
>>> investigate in more detail?  Say, adding 400 and 600 nA points?
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Sean
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 11:56 AM Justin Stevens <jrsteven at jlab.org
>>> <mailto:jrsteven at jlab.org>> wrote:
>>>> Hi Richard,
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for your feedback.  See below ->
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 19, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Richard Jones <richard.t.jones at uconn.edu
>>> <mailto:richard.t.jones at uconn.edu>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Justin,
>>>> 
>>>> If we want to understand rate-related systematics, wouldn't it be better
>>> to push the upper limit of the scan higher? This way we learn something
>>> about what starts to go wrong at lower intensities, where we might want to
>>> run during the high-intensity period.
>>>> 
>>>> If it doesn't break anything, we should take some data at higher
>>> intensities, even if we have to prescale the trigger. I propose running two
>>> or three more points up to 700 nA on this diamond. This 700uA comes from
>>> the original design intensity for GlueX which was 1e8 photons per second on
>>> the target in the range 8.4 - 9.0 GeV (or 8.2 - 8.8 GeV with the present
>>> endpoint).
>>>> 
>>>> Sure, high intensity points are “cheap”, so this puts us at ~30 hours at
>>> 100% efficiency.  I added these points to the scan, if we’re comfortable
>>> going to this high an intensity (from a detector safety and trigger point
>>> of view).
>>>> 
>>>> I realize that this 5e-4 radlen in the spreadsheet for this diamond is
>>> just a placeholder, but that value should be closer to 3e-4. Radiation
>>> length is not really a valid metric for a coherent bremsstrahlung spectrum,
>>> but in the low-energy tail it is valid, where the radiation length of
>>> diamond is close to 15um as long as you stay away from the channeling
>>> condition. To get this, you cannot just take amorphous carbon and rescale
>>> it by the density, of course, as the crystal structure modifies the
>>> radiation length at all orientations.
>>>> 
>>>> I agree the diamond radiation length is a bit of a fudge, but it
>>> actually cancels in my calculation of the expected run time.  The only
>>> thing I use is the total trigger rate for the nominal intensity (~45 kHz
>>> for diamond) and scale by the current to get the time required.
>>>> 
>>>> -Justin
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -Richard
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 10:11 AM Justin Stevens <jrsteven at jlab.org
>>> <mailto:jrsteven at jlab.org>> wrote:
>>>> Dear Collaborators,
>>>> 
>>>> Following the discussion at this morning’s RC meeting for an intensity
>>> scan this Fall, here is what I would propose:
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Furldefense.proofpoint.com-252Fv2-252Furl-253Fu-253Dhttps-2D3A-5F-5Fdocs.google.com-5Fspreadsheets-5Fd-5F1UT3o4yJ-2D2DavlIQzmZKJo2nRrgVPzYKJvGPJ0oqAn81Oo-5Fedit-2D3Fusp-2D3Dsharing-2526d-253DDwIGaQ-2526c-253Dlz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4-2D-2D09aP8Lu18s-2526r-253DMwj7jqW-5FGg8VvugDHdwA5w-2526m-253D-5FX3Z46cZYdB3Mq0066MeIIqspYRtV5uWmIdE3DKDD9E-2526s-253D27qXEoJLy9v6wZ7LpbadD07mVXM1aWPiEZiTuLYtHlE-2526e-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257Crichard.t.jones-2540uconn.edu-257Cfb0599295e7f467e6fbc08d64e4ffcef-257C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080-257C0-257C0-257C636782502793219428-26amp-3Bsdata-3DXAShNOwPv7CBj7HipP-252FBZ-252Fea9oXBpNLvKCXJvyz-252Be1Y-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0-3D&d=DwIFaQ&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=Mwj7jqW_Gg8VvugDHdwA5w&m=t-5ZT_xIIaNrEwBR-18xFlZW_SF2qpyb3knpfqYvS2o&s=SHkMbYb9fOplOtUvT3eimhHf6wxUo1vqZAkyaL-gTLY&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Furldefense.proofpoint.com-252Fv2-252Furl-253Fu-253Dhttps-2D3A-5F-5Fdocs.google.com-5Fspreadsheets-5Fd-5F1UT3o4yJ-2D2DavlIQzmZKJo2nRrgVPzYKJvGPJ0oqAn81Oo-5Fedit-2D3Fusp-2D3Dsharing-2526d-253DDwIGaQ-2526c-253Dlz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4-2D-2D09aP8Lu18s-2526r-253DMwj7jqW-5FGg8VvugDHdwA5w-2526m-253D-5FX3Z46cZYdB3Mq0066MeIIqspYRtV5uWmIdE3DKDD9E-2526s-253D27qXEoJLy9v6wZ7LpbadD07mVXM1aWPiEZiTuLYtHlE-2526e-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257Crichard.t.jones-2540uconn.edu-257Cfb0599295e7f467e6fbc08d64e4ffcef-257C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080-257C0-257C0-257C636782502793219428-26amp-3Bsdata-3DXAShNOwPv7CBj7HipP-252FBZ-252Fea9oXBpNLvKCXJvyz-252Be1Y-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0-3D&d=DwIFaQ&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=Mwj7jqW_Gg8VvugDHdwA5w&m=t-5ZT_xIIaNrEwBR-18xFlZW_SF2qpyb3knpfqYvS2o&s=SHkMbYb9fOplOtUvT3eimhHf6wxUo1vqZAkyaL-gTLY&e=>
>>> <
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fdocs.google.com-252Fspreadsheets-252Fd-252F1UT3o4yJ-2DavlIQzmZKJo2nRrgVPzYKJvGPJ0oqAn81Oo-252Fedit-253Fusp-253Dsharing-26data-3D02-257C01-257Crichard.t.jones-2540uconn.edu-257C2a054bc8dc824538f06908d64e314804-257C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080-257C0-257C0-257C636782370905211494-26sdata-3D9Sov7Fn68-252F0EsSrmdAiZ-252BHwwCC8KslfwMZPmqOufmqM-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMFaQ%26c%3Dlz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s%26r%3DcIyw2PFFtpuc0ZvlKFxF6UnQ9C9dChESxxwL_XrGKB8%26m%3D5x60TVJ8MWSM9A2jrjY1xKIskHZbATEXmLaQNxYDIk0%26s%3DVNrl0oRFsfR28nvFv8Oyp7omkfKi-EFVp6gylZAv0yI%26e&data=02%7C01%7Crichard.t.jones%40uconn.edu%7Cfb0599295e7f467e6fbc08d64e4ffcef%7C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080%7C0%7C0%7C636782502793219428&sdata=lr8hqjS7ue8zE4G6nwejZXi5KSwLwp28%2F7xxhMTaWdA%3D&reserved=0= <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fdocs.google.com-252Fspreadsheets-252Fd-252F1UT3o4yJ-2DavlIQzmZKJo2nRrgVPzYKJvGPJ0oqAn81Oo-252Fedit-253Fusp-253Dsharing-26data-3D02-257C01-257Crichard.t.jones-2540uconn.edu-257C2a054bc8dc824538f06908d64e314804-257C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080-257C0-257C0-257C636782370905211494-26sdata-3D9Sov7Fn68-252F0EsSrmdAiZ-252BHwwCC8KslfwMZPmqOufmqM-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMFaQ%26c%3Dlz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s%26r%3DcIyw2PFFtpuc0ZvlKFxF6UnQ9C9dChESxxwL_XrGKB8%26m%3D5x60TVJ8MWSM9A2jrjY1xKIskHZbATEXmLaQNxYDIk0%26s%3DVNrl0oRFsfR28nvFv8Oyp7omkfKi-EFVp6gylZAv0yI%26e&data=02%7C01%7Crichard.t.jones%40uconn.edu%7Cfb0599295e7f467e6fbc08d64e4ffcef%7C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080%7C0%7C0%7C636782502793219428&sdata=lr8hqjS7ue8zE4G6nwejZXi5KSwLwp28%2F7xxhMTaWdA%3D&reserved=0=>>.
>>> There are two sheets at this link: RunPeriod-2018-08 (the proposal for this
>>> week) and RunPeriod-2018-01 (the data we've collected previously).  As a
>>> reminder, in Spring 2018 we did not have any high-statistics intensity scan
>>> with the final Tungsten foil installed in the beamline.
>>>> 
>>>> The proposal covers the same range of intensity (Beam current x RL) as
>>> we had in Spring 2018, with 100M events at each setting (aside from the
>>> very low intensity, where the rate is too low).  As Sergey requested, this
>>> also includes a raw mode run at each setting of 1M events, assumed to run
>>> at ~3 kHz.  The goal is to have a complete set of intensity scan data for
>>> efficiency studies with this Fall 2018 data.
>>>> 
>>>> The estimated beam time required for this proposal is ~28 hours at 100%
>>> efficiency, so it would likely take at least 2 days of calendar time to
>>> complete.
>>>> 
>>>> Comments/suggestions welcome,
>>>> Justin
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Halld mailing list
>>>> Halld at jlab.org <mailto:Halld at jlab.org><mailto:Halld at jlab.org <mailto:Halld at jlab.org>>
>>>> 
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fmailman.jlab.org-252Fmailman-252Flistinfo-252Fhalld-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257Crichard.t.jones-2540uconn.edu-257C2a054bc8dc824538f06908d64e314804-257C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080-257C0-257C0-257C636782370905221499-26amp-3Bsdata-3DFroliv7F0Jnk20FMX8aATVGAmY71cXVkFDNwpcY-252BI7k-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0%26d%3DDwIGaQ%26c%3Dlz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s%26r%3DMwj7jqW_Gg8VvugDHdwA5w%26m%3D_X3Z46cZYdB3Mq0066MeIIqspYRtV5uWmIdE3DKDD9E%26s%3Dr1qcsX6lRIsI9K4UdNbb_t8RVdpicbbFmAogXglEABo%26e&data=02%7C01%7Crichard.t.jones%40uconn.edu%7Cfb0599295e7f467e6fbc08d64e4ffcef%7C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080%7C0%7C0%7C636782502793219428&sdata=5PZoX2a0RwPBFRjXtQ4kPynus9LGycGEp19PWy1357M%3D&reserved=0= <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fmailman.jlab.org-252Fmailman-252Flistinfo-252Fhalld-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257Crichard.t.jones-2540uconn.edu-257C2a054bc8dc824538f06908d64e314804-257C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080-257C0-257C0-257C636782370905221499-26amp-3Bsdata-3DFroliv7F0Jnk20FMX8aATVGAmY71cXVkFDNwpcY-252BI7k-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0%26d%3DDwIGaQ%26c%3Dlz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s%26r%3DMwj7jqW_Gg8VvugDHdwA5w%26m%3D_X3Z46cZYdB3Mq0066MeIIqspYRtV5uWmIdE3DKDD9E%26s%3Dr1qcsX6lRIsI9K4UdNbb_t8RVdpicbbFmAogXglEABo%26e&data=02%7C01%7Crichard.t.jones%40uconn.edu%7Cfb0599295e7f467e6fbc08d64e4ffcef%7C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080%7C0%7C0%7C636782502793219428&sdata=5PZoX2a0RwPBFRjXtQ4kPynus9LGycGEp19PWy1357M%3D&reserved=0=>
>>> <
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fmailman.jlab.org-252Fmailman-252Flistinfo-252Fhalld-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257Crichard.t.jones-2540uconn.edu-257C2a054bc8dc824538f06908d64e314804-257C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080-257C0-257C0-257C636782370905221499-26amp-3Bsdata-3DFroliv7F0Jnk20FMX8aATVGAmY71cXVkFDNwpcY-252BI7k-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMFaQ%26c%3Dlz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s%26r%3DcIyw2PFFtpuc0ZvlKFxF6UnQ9C9dChESxxwL_XrGKB8%26m%3D5x60TVJ8MWSM9A2jrjY1xKIskHZbATEXmLaQNxYDIk0%26s%3DLN4Y_llWNgLKJqLykMqSSELJdzoIU0V4nUzKf6U4m9o%26e&data=02%7C01%7Crichard.t.jones%40uconn.edu%7Cfb0599295e7f467e6fbc08d64e4ffcef%7C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080%7C0%7C0%7C636782502793219428&sdata=9%2Ba6a6R2jZMV1mufnE7umd56t5fVRwfcJ7Ebt6AUwdE%3D&reserved=0= <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fmailman.jlab.org-252Fmailman-252Flistinfo-252Fhalld-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257Crichard.t.jones-2540uconn.edu-257C2a054bc8dc824538f06908d64e314804-257C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080-257C0-257C0-257C636782370905221499-26amp-3Bsdata-3DFroliv7F0Jnk20FMX8aATVGAmY71cXVkFDNwpcY-252BI7k-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMFaQ%26c%3Dlz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s%26r%3DcIyw2PFFtpuc0ZvlKFxF6UnQ9C9dChESxxwL_XrGKB8%26m%3D5x60TVJ8MWSM9A2jrjY1xKIskHZbATEXmLaQNxYDIk0%26s%3DLN4Y_llWNgLKJqLykMqSSELJdzoIU0V4nUzKf6U4m9o%26e&data=02%7C01%7Crichard.t.jones%40uconn.edu%7Cfb0599295e7f467e6fbc08d64e4ffcef%7C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080%7C0%7C0%7C636782502793219428&sdata=9%2Ba6a6R2jZMV1mufnE7umd56t5fVRwfcJ7Ebt6AUwdE%3D&reserved=0=>
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Halld at jlab.org <mailto:Halld at jlab.org><mailto:Halld at jlab.org <mailto:Halld at jlab.org>>
>>>> 
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>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Halld at jlab.org <mailto:Halld at jlab.org>
>>> 
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fmailman.jlab.org-252Fmailman-252Flistinfo-252Fhalld-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257Crichard.t.jones-2540uconn.edu-257Cfb0599295e7f467e6fbc08d64e4ffcef-257C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080-257C0-257C0-257C636782502793239442-26amp-3Bsdata-3DIZT7xm2xsb-252F5TDmrqZP7Ly-252F3WnvP6Du9PkfPUJ-252BKZwA-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIFaQ&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=Mwj7jqW_Gg8VvugDHdwA5w&m=t-5ZT_xIIaNrEwBR-18xFlZW_SF2qpyb3knpfqYvS2o&s=KeU1cwQEQyD-TRFVfaiNy_HbJUh_nKVRAcVKjwJ2LEo&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fmailman.jlab.org-252Fmailman-252Flistinfo-252Fhalld-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257Crichard.t.jones-2540uconn.edu-257Cfb0599295e7f467e6fbc08d64e4ffcef-257C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080-257C0-257C0-257C636782502793239442-26amp-3Bsdata-3DIZT7xm2xsb-252F5TDmrqZP7Ly-252F3WnvP6Du9PkfPUJ-252BKZwA-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIFaQ&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=Mwj7jqW_Gg8VvugDHdwA5w&m=t-5ZT_xIIaNrEwBR-18xFlZW_SF2qpyb3knpfqYvS2o&s=KeU1cwQEQyD-TRFVfaiNy_HbJUh_nKVRAcVKjwJ2LEo&e=>
>>> 
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