<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
This may be. This is what I said one needs to check out and as you
said put it in if it is absent.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Neven<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 09/26/2017 02:49 PM, Krishna Kumar
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:BC1E40CD-144A-4003-A1DF-461CBEA8E3AE@stonybrook.edu"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
In fact my guess is the Moller scattering is absent. Note that the
electron energy does not start to rise again at lower energies as
one would expect if Moller scattering was included. I am sure
FLUKA has state of the art cross-sections for complicated hadronic
processes. Likely simple things like elastic electron-electron
scattering and electron proton scattering is not in their radar
because this not traditionally what it is used for.
<div class="">KK</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Sep 26, 2017, at 3:45 PM, Krishna Kumar
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:krishna.kumar@stonybrook.edu" class="">krishna.kumar@stonybrook.edu</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"
class="">Hi, Neven. I am very skeptical that FLUKA
will get the cross-sections even for MOLLER scattering
right. I personally feel if is safer if you use our
own generators for each process and use GEANT or FLUKA
to look at punchthroughs and general acceptance
through a realistic apparatus. This will save the CPU
time you are talking about. The MOLLER and ep cross
sections as a function of angle does not look right to
me. In linear scale you have no rate beyond 0.4
degrees. This is simply not correct.
<div class="">KK</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Sep 26, 2017, at 3:28 PM, Neven
Simicevic <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:neven@phys.latech.edu" class="">neven@phys.latech.edu</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class="">
Hi KK,<br class="">
<br class="">
Those are raw data out of the latest FLUKA
and out of one trial run. I assume that
FLUKA has state of the art cross sections
in it, but, to be confident in the results,
one needs to check if the results agree with
existing experimental data and GEANT.<br
class="">
This requires higher statistic to separate
the results into different channels. <br
class="">
Acceptance in the graphs is slightly larger
than 5 to 17 mrad just to see beyond the
limits. <br class="">
The gap is a result of the fact that the
cross section is linear in solid angle or
cos(theta), and since I plotted equidistant
binning in cos(theta) as non-equidistant
binning in theta one binning was skipped. <br
class="">
So it is just a way it was plotted not that
there is a gap in physics. <br class="">
0.15% is what we use to estimate the ratio
in rates between pions and electrons and, I
guess, in the way you defined.<br class="">
<br class="">
The idea of this exercise is to speed up the
simulation by dividing it into stages where
the output of one stage becomes the input
into the other. <br class="">
<br class="">
For example, the spectral distribution of
the particles coming out of the target can
be the input into simulating the background
due to the beam dump. This will speed up the
simulation by orders of magnitude. <br
class="">
<br class="">
Cheers, <br class="">
<br class="">
Neven<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 09/26/2017
12:16 PM, Krishna Kumar wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:7B4BEA5B-D843-4F0B-B12A-4B95741C6BCA@stonybrook.edu"
type="cite" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
class="">
HI, I won’t be able to call into the
meeting. What generator are you using?
Also our acceptance is 5 to 17 mrad or so.
I don’t understand why you have no
electrons between 0.4 and 0.5 degrees. The
0.15% estimate is for pions generated in
the target in the target (prompt electro
or photo production) that go through the
primary acceptance collimator, compared to
the Moller rate through that collimator.
No punch throughs have ever been properly
simulated (yet). Perhaps I am mistaken
about what you call 0.15%.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Cheers, KK</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Sep 26, 2017, at
1:04 PM, Neven Simicevic <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:neven@phys.latech.edu"
class="">neven@phys.latech.edu</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br
class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type"
class="">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
text="#000000" class=""> Dear
all,<br class="">
<br class="">
I do not know if we will have
time to discuss it today, but I
am looking into pion/electron
rates. <br class="">
In all our simulations we assume
that the pion rate is ~0.15
percent. <br class="">
Attached is my first preliminary
simulation of pion/electron
rates as a function of the
particles angle and energy.<br
class="">
I have to carefully recheck this
numbers, change binning a
little, and increase
statistics.<br class="">
<br class="">
Cheers,<br class="">
<br class="">
Neven<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On
09/25/2017 08:03 AM, Kurtis
Bartlett wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+onGHMX6-f6hjKhKD08+BpudyMn=cswHL+SOYUMQoOFttnwDQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">Hello
Everyone, <br
class="">
<br class="">
</div>
As a reminder we will
have our next meeting
tomorrow afternoon at
our new meeting time of
4 pm EST.<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
Cheers,<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
Kurtis<br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br
class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 9:52
AM, Kurtis Bartlett <span
dir="ltr" class=""><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kdbartlett@email.wm.edu" target="_blank" class="">kdbartlett@email.wm.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Hello
Everyone,<br class="">
<br class="">
As a reminder to the
members of the <span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488m_-4991608047743486789m_2145963482046753178m_-3216089366405490180m_6242814976674702406m_6383061932988912735gmail-m_2175965128871661572gmail-m_-4121694774762064494gmail-il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488m_-4991608047743486789m_2145963482046753178m_-3216089366405490180m_6242814976674702406il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488m_-4991608047743486789m_2145963482046753178m_-3216089366405490180il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488m_-4991608047743486789m_2145963482046753178il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488m_-4991608047743486789il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079il">MOLLER</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span> <span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488m_-4991608047743486789m_2145963482046753178m_-3216089366405490180m_6242814976674702406m_6383061932988912735gmail-m_2175965128871661572gmail-m_-4121694774762064494gmail-il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488m_-4991608047743486789m_2145963482046753178m_-3216089366405490180m_6242814976674702406il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488m_-4991608047743486789m_2145963482046753178m_-3216089366405490180il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488m_-4991608047743486789m_2145963482046753178il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488m_-4991608047743486789il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079il">Pion</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span> <span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488m_-4991608047743486789m_2145963482046753178m_-3216089366405490180il">Background</span>/Det<wbr
class="">ector
working group, there
will be a meeting <b
class="">next week</b>
on Tuesday Sept. 26 at
4 pm EST.
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class=""><span
style="font-size:12.8px"
class="">The
agenda for the
meeting can be
found on the </span><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488m_-4991608047743486789m_2145963482046753178m_-3216089366405490180m_6242814976674702406m_6383061932988912735gmail-m_2175965128871661572gmail-m_-4121694774762064494gmail-m_9088376801859300875gmail-il"
style="font-size:12.8px"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488m_-4991608047743486789m_2145963482046753178m_-3216089366405490180m_6242814976674702406il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488m_-4991608047743486789m_2145963482046753178m_-3216089366405490180il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488m_-4991608047743486789m_2145963482046753178il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488m_-4991608047743486789il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901m_-8730992862358660488il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036m_-4098367283173685901il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487m_7714064982042988025m_3723910778592663036il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265m_-2983144210669640487il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375m_581691258447352265il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476m_6598305119741077375il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096m_-7059616030237860476il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079m_-1454229031253393096il"><span
class="m_-2189440189183845079il">MOLLER</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span
style="font-size:12.8px" class=""> wiki:</span></div>
<div class=""><br
class=""
clear="all">
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://hallaweb.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/MOLLER_Pion_Background_Meeting_Tuesday%2C_September_26%2C_2017_4:00pm_EST"
target="_blank"
class="">https://hallaweb.jlab.org/<wbr
class="">wiki/index.php/MOLLER_Pion_<wbr
class="">Background_Meeting_Tuesday%2C_<wbr
class="">September_26%2C_2017_4:00pm_<wbr
class="">EST</a><br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">Feel
free to add any
other points of
business to the
wiki.
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class="">
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class="">
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class="">
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class="">Here
is the
Bluejeans call
information:</div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class="">URL: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__bluejeans.com_624029893&d=DwMFaQ&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=LyAb7BfuulVB-k0tbOhHTpVqHlxbnL-in83zvJV-2vY&m=RFql1jSTzLYoUDLMOtDWj1KkVbQmux44064kA9leRyI&s=DMRTgckGgIUul00m3zSVpKaBCn2stcSPjNNftpslmhE&e="
target="_blank" class="">https://bluejeans.com/624<wbr class="">029893</a></div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class="">Phone
Number: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:1-888-240-2560" value="+18882402560" target="_blank" class="">1-888-240-2560</a></div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class="">Meeting
ID: 624029893</div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class="">Hope
to see
everyone
there.</div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class="">Cheers,</div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"
class="">Kurtis</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font
class=""
color="#888888"><br
class="">
-- <br class="">
<div
class="m_-2189440189183845079gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr"
class="">Kurtis
D. Bartlett<br
class="">
<br class="">
<div class="">PhD.
Research
Candidate </div>
<div class="">College
of William and
Mary Physics
Department<br
class="">
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kdbartlett@email.wm.edu" target="_blank" class="">kdbartlett@email.wm.edu</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</font></span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
<br class="" clear="all">
<br class="">
-- <br class="">
<div class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Kurtis
D. Bartlett<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="">PhD.
Research Candidate </div>
<div class="">College of
William and Mary
Physics Department<br
class="">
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kdbartlett@email.wm.edu" target="_blank" class="">kdbartlett@email.wm.edu</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<fieldset
class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br class="">
<pre class="" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Moller_pion_bg mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Moller_pion_bg@jlab.org">Moller_pion_bg@jlab.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/moller_pion_bg">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/moller_pion_bg</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Neven Simicevic
Wayne and Juanita Spinks Professor of Physics
College of Engineering and Science
Louisiana Tech University
600 Dan Reneau Dr., Engineering Annex
P.O. Box 10348 T.S.
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: 318-257-3591
</pre>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Neven Simicevic
Wayne and Juanita Spinks Professor of Physics
College of Engineering and Science
Louisiana Tech University
600 Dan Reneau Dr., Engineering Annex
P.O. Box 10348 T.S.
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: 318-257-3591
</pre>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Neven Simicevic
Wayne and Juanita Spinks Professor of Physics
College of Engineering and Science
Louisiana Tech University
600 Dan Reneau Dr., Engineering Annex
P.O. Box 10348 T.S.
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: 318-257-3591
</pre>
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