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Dear Tim,<br>
<br>
I confess to being a little surprised that you only now discovered
that people often add systematic and statistical uncertainties in
quadruture. I don't know where you learned in your youth, but I
thought you went to grad school at Yale, working with Vernon Hughes
- a noted scientist. I, too, worked with Vernon, and can personally
attest (and show co-authored papers) with statistical and systematic
uncertainties combined in quadrature. I share with NIST a lack of
enthusiasm for terms like statistical and systematic "errors",
preferring the more accurate (to my mind) use of "uncertainties".
As for the issue of combining these very different origins of such
uncertainties, one might look to what is now common in much of high
energy physics presentations these days. Here, one simply states
the experimentalist's values for the statistical and systematic
uncertainties. With high energy physics' reliance on incredibly
sophisticated codes for experimental interpretation these days, this
is arguably best. I note that in the push to exceptionally high
precision in some measurements (e.g. NIST type stuff), it is also
becoming common to simply state statistical and systematic
uncertainties separately and leave it at that. Perhaps we should do
this for Mott? I would be OK with that, and I suspect that if we
ever do another "spin dance" at JLab, the choice may well be to
simply state the statistical and systematic uncertainties separately
and leave it at that. Not overly satisfying to the reader, to be
sure..............<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Charlie<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/9/2020 1:00 PM, Timothy Gay wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Dear
Mott team:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
may have spoken hastily on my last point emailed last
night. I just dug in to this more thoroughly, and the NIST
Website on Uncertainty
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__physics.nist.gov_cuu_Uncertainty_international1.html&d=DwMFAg&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=hIi4A-HgNXaCb56eFCTIew&m=zMBOY7vHu-mMwNo1MpaVDXoP9hrfczgc7quQ164i00U&s=p2uPrKrKpeXld665zEELAMpibURJhXBAJoAlXljn4U0&e="><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__physics.nist.gov_cuu_Uncertainty_international1.html&d=DwMD-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=hIi4A-HgNXaCb56eFCTIew&m=WNwXjqkuXRm6edFa6GrGbg6mPQLLGLj13biWtQCKPCg&s=gzBj8O-XzMiHMta2NKNU0Se0my0JLq2cpJi8AJRYTJQ&e=">https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Uncertainty/international1.html</a></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">seems
to imply that adding systematic and random uncertainties in
quadrature is OK (although they discourage the use of the
phrase “systematic error”). So maybe Table 3 is OK as it
stands. (This is not what I learned in my youth!)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Tim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true" name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Mott [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:mott-bounces@jlab.org">mailto:mott-bounces@jlab.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joe Grames<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 6, 2020 2:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mott@jlab.org">mott@jlab.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Mott] Version #8<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Hi
Mott Team,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Please
find attached version #8 of the Mott paper. The attached
copy address ~all of the edits we agreed to during our
conference call a month ago, thanks especially to Marcy
and Daniel for polishing off the fitting section. A
short while after that meeting, Charlie asked that we take
one last hard look at how we've categorized and tallied
the uncertainties. Riad and Daniel largely championed
this assessment, and consequently the paper is better for
it. While there is no new surprise twist ending, the
uncertainties and studies therein of what we did are
clearly and correctly spelled out.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">If
you would like to make some mild polishing, fix grammar or
punctuation that's okay, just edit in review mode and
return to me by
<b>Monday, Feb 10</b>. Note, I'm not asking for any
further edits, and would not fret over layout, fonts, etc,
b/c that is dictated by the publisher. However, if you
find something objectionable then probably a good idea to
reply-all and make your case. Short of anything that
slows this bus down, I would like to submit the paper soon
after Monday.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Joe<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Mott mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Mott@jlab.org">Mott@jlab.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/mott">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/mott</a>
</pre>
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