[Psqateic] [EXTERNAL] Re: PSQ at EIC White Paper

teryaev teryaev at jinr.ru
Wed Aug 17 15:07:59 EDT 2022 

Dear Volker,
dear Keh-Fei.
dear Simonetta,

Quarks' Cbar was also calculated by Maxim Polyakov and collaborators in 
chiral soliton model,
and the result was small, compatible to extension of equivalence 
principle.
Indeed, its role for quark contribution to mass, as Keh-Fei pointed out, 
is special among other cancelling structures, maybe it deserves special 
mention.

best regards,
Oleg


Volker Burkert писал(а) 2022-08-17 16:59:
> Dear Keh-Fei and Oleg,
> 
>  I like the idea to acknowledge the existence of additional terms that
> cancel when summing quarks and gluons, but don't discuss them in any
> detail.
>  I have not seen a description of how \bar{C} can be measured in
> experiment, either for quarks or for gluons, separately. If there are
> such proposals we could refer to them in the WP.
> 
>   Perhaps we could mention that \bar{C} may be computed in LQCD and
> then used as correction to the EMT for quarks and gluons separately?
> 
>  Volker
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> From: teryaev <teryaev at jinr.ru>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 4:16 AM
> To: Keh-Fei Liu <liu at g.uky.edu>
> Cc: Volker Burkert <burkert at jlab.org>; psqateic at jlab.org
> <psqateic at jlab.org>
> Subject: Re: [Psqateic] [EXTERNAL] Re: PSQ at EIC White Paper
> 
> Dear Keh-Fei,
> 
> You are completely right, there are terms cancelling when the when
> quark
> and gluon contributions are summed (due to equivalence principle,
> whose
> extension may be used to explain their smallness even separately),
> including C\bar ("proton cosmological constant")  together with
> anomalous gravitomagnetic moment, and often forgotten gravitoelectric
> dipole moment. violating also CP. Indeed, C \bar is crucially
> important
> when (separate) traces are calculated.
> 
> Maybe in the text one can add after (6) something like "There are also
> 
> terms cancelling
> in the sum of quark and gluons due to conservation laws and
> equivalence
> principle"?
> 
> best regards,
> Oleg
> 
> Keh-Fei Liu писал(а) 2022-08-13 08:56:
>> Dear Volker:
>> 
>>        Now that we agree that there are \bar{C} terms in Eq. (6),
> take
>> the trace of the GFF in the rest frame, one
>> has the expression <T_{\mu\mu}> = [(A_q(0) + A_g(0)]M + Tr-Anomaly +
>> chiral condensate - [(A_q(0) + A_g(0)]M = Tr-Anomaly
>> +chiral condensate which is the correct expression. The last three
>> terms come from \bar{C} which is zero (for a good reason because
>> it is the stability condition). If one drops them first, one ends up
>> with the expression of [(A_q(0) + A_g(0)]M. Please explain why
>> it is acceptable and not wrong with an expression where the trace of
>> EMT does not contain trace anomaly. \bar{C} exists in many
>> publications in the literature, I don't understand the rationale for
>> dropping it in this document. It leads to (unintended) consequences.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Keh-Fei
>> 
>> On 8/12/22 4:07 PM, Volker Burkert wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear Keh-Fei,
>>> 
>>> * There is agreement for eq.(6) which deals with quark and gluon
>>> EMT separately, and the \bar{C} is needed (with opposite sign for q
>>> and g).
>>> * For eq.(19), which deals with the full EMT (quark + gluons} the
>>> \bar{C} terms should cancel out to zero, and the term \bar{C}
> should
>>> not appear.
>>> 
>>> *
>>> 
>>> *
>>> * Volker
>>> 
>>> *
>>> 
>>> -------------------------
>>> 
>>> From: Keh-Fei Liu <liu at g.uky.edu>
>>> Sent: Friday, August 5, 2022 8:35 AM
>>> To: Volker Burkert <burkert at jlab.org>; psqateic-request at jlab.org
>>> <psqateic-request at jlab.org>
>>> Cc: Lorcé Cédric (M.) <cedric.lorce at polytechnique.edu>
>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Psqateic] PSQ at EIC White Paper
>>> 
>>> Dear Volker and Latifa:
>>> 
>>> Thank you for your tremendous effort in organizing this
>>> valuable whitepaper for the community.
>>> 
>>> I now have a firm argument to show that one cannot drop
>>> the \bar{C} term in Eqs. (6) and (19). Take the
>>> forward FF of the trace T_{\mu\mu}, they give (A_q(0) + A_g(0))M.
>>> This is a trivial and meaningless result. It relates
>>> the matrix element of the trace to the mass via a sum rule of
>>> traceless matrix elements. It does not have the anomaly.
>>> Only when the \bar{C} is retained, do you get the correct
> expression
>>> with the anomaly. We should put the \bar{C} term back
>>> in these equations.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Keh-Fei
>>> 
>>> On 8/3/22 4:33 PM, Volker Burkert wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>> 
>>>> We are sending you this email because you have registered to
>>>> participate in at least one of the workshops presented below,
>>>> which were held on December 15-16, 2020, March 17-19, 2021, and
>>>> July 19-23, 2021.
>>>> 
>>>> One of the main goals of these workshops was to develop a white
>>>> paper focused on high-impact science requiring high integrated
>>>> luminosity at the low-to-medium center-of-mass energy of the U.S.
>>>> Electron-Ion Collider project.
>>>> 
>>>> This white paper is ready to be submitted for publication. As a
>>>> participant in the workshop series, we invite you to become a
>>>> co-author of this white paper, which can be found at this link:
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> https://www.femtocenter.org/sites/default/files/docs/PSQ_EIC_White_Paper.pdf
> [1]
>>>> [1]
>>>> 
>>>> Please visit this link and review the scope and content of the
>>>> white paper. If you decide to co-author the WP, please send an
>>>> email to burkert at jlab.org no later than August 12.  You may also
>>>> suggest minor changes to the text, acknowledgements, and
>>>> references, or make comments that would improve the WP.
>>>> 
>>>> We have an agreement with a journal to publish the paper and we
>>>> need to submit the final version by August 20.
>>>> 
>>>> With best regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Volker & Latifa
>>>> 
>>>> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__indico.bnl.gov_event_9794&d=DwIDaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=vVqGQabj76hiyFv-SdFNhS9JnbDxELkn2szNoXMYQyo&m=Qy-CQv_msBooo8cd6Jy97FsQwD8soQkuCbKcwOzXyRURXIXufQPQRH2VFLMnTGww&s=S77fnwvL0qr9S0UjhFrOn1UKkpBtmyd0ngSd30jkvnM&e=
> [2]   [2]
>>>> 
>>>> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__indico.bnl.gov_event_10677&d=DwIDaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=vVqGQabj76hiyFv-SdFNhS9JnbDxELkn2szNoXMYQyo&m=Qy-CQv_msBooo8cd6Jy97FsQwD8soQkuCbKcwOzXyRURXIXufQPQRH2VFLMnTGww&s=fKbED_GbnFDO9bFXhGMzRrvCfcXJWfnRR1S8j0R6yhM&e=
> [3]   [3]
>>>> 
>>>> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__indico.bnl.gov_event_11669&d=DwIDaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=vVqGQabj76hiyFv-SdFNhS9JnbDxELkn2szNoXMYQyo&m=Qy-CQv_msBooo8cd6Jy97FsQwD8soQkuCbKcwOzXyRURXIXufQPQRH2VFLMnTGww&s=Qcy4YcgzWFq0QuKBEPSZwhN7LZBCAp-YbjHSGZmhWH8&e=
> [4]   [4]
>>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1]
>> 
> https://www.femtocenter.org/sites/default/files/docs/PSQ_EIC_White_Paper.pdf
> [1]
>> [2]
>> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__indico.bnl.gov_event_9794&d=DwMDaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=vVqGQabj76hiyFv-SdFNhS9JnbDxELkn2szNoXMYQyo&m=5AYW9vwxxp8DN9axYcgThaO2tDVhNhrtj-XHvMm22kfS_MbCzGceMTTjt26SJakY&s=4daDQQx1-C0DPsG0iFTkbWjsPATQb5ZddY_N9OGquj0&e=
> [6]
>> [3]
>> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__indico.bnl.gov_event_10677&d=DwMDaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=vVqGQabj76hiyFv-SdFNhS9JnbDxELkn2szNoXMYQyo&m=5AYW9vwxxp8DN9axYcgThaO2tDVhNhrtj-XHvMm22kfS_MbCzGceMTTjt26SJakY&s=vIOR4EUCQxbO8iay3K1a8zheeXLc26lrKytTPA4AF_U&e=
> [7]
>> [4]
>> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__indico.bnl.gov_event_11669&d=DwMDaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=vVqGQabj76hiyFv-SdFNhS9JnbDxELkn2szNoXMYQyo&m=5AYW9vwxxp8DN9axYcgThaO2tDVhNhrtj-XHvMm22kfS_MbCzGceMTTjt26SJakY&s=ULJyvLIlwTDZWjvQsqoes6fwCcIVQE67gO8XWJup3aI&e=
> [8]
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> 
> 
> 
> Links:
> ------
> [1] 
> https://www.femtocenter.org/sites/default/files/docs/PSQ_EIC_White_Paper.pdf
> [2] 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__indico.bnl.gov_event_9794&d=DwIDaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=vVqGQabj76hiyFv-SdFNhS9JnbDxELkn2szNoXMYQyo&m=Qy-CQv_msBooo8cd6Jy97FsQwD8soQkuCbKcwOzXyRURXIXufQPQRH2VFLMnTGww&s=S77fnwvL0qr9S0UjhFrOn1UKkpBtmyd0ngSd30jkvnM&e=
> [3] 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__indico.bnl.gov_event_10677&d=DwIDaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=vVqGQabj76hiyFv-SdFNhS9JnbDxELkn2szNoXMYQyo&m=Qy-CQv_msBooo8cd6Jy97FsQwD8soQkuCbKcwOzXyRURXIXufQPQRH2VFLMnTGww&s=fKbED_GbnFDO9bFXhGMzRrvCfcXJWfnRR1S8j0R6yhM&e=
> [4] 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__indico.bnl.gov_event_11669&d=DwIDaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=vVqGQabj76hiyFv-SdFNhS9JnbDxELkn2szNoXMYQyo&m=Qy-CQv_msBooo8cd6Jy97FsQwD8soQkuCbKcwOzXyRURXIXufQPQRH2VFLMnTGww&s=Qcy4YcgzWFq0QuKBEPSZwhN7LZBCAp-YbjHSGZmhWH8&e=
> [5] https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/psqateic
> [6] 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__indico.bnl.gov_event_9794&amp;d=DwMDaQ&amp;c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&amp;r=vVqGQabj76hiyFv-SdFNhS9JnbDxELkn2szNoXMYQyo&amp;m=5AYW9vwxxp8DN9axYcgThaO2tDVhNhrtj-XHvMm22kfS_MbCzGceMTTjt26SJakY&amp;s=4daDQQx1-C0DPsG0iFTkbWjsPATQb5ZddY_N9OGquj0&amp;e=
> [7] 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__indico.bnl.gov_event_10677&amp;d=DwMDaQ&amp;c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&amp;r=vVqGQabj76hiyFv-SdFNhS9JnbDxELkn2szNoXMYQyo&amp;m=5AYW9vwxxp8DN9axYcgThaO2tDVhNhrtj-XHvMm22kfS_MbCzGceMTTjt26SJakY&amp;s=vIOR4EUCQxbO8iay3K1a8zheeXLc26lrKytTPA4AF_U&amp;e=
> [8] 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__indico.bnl.gov_event_11669&amp;d=DwMDaQ&amp;c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&amp;r=vVqGQabj76hiyFv-SdFNhS9JnbDxELkn2szNoXMYQyo&amp;m=5AYW9vwxxp8DN9axYcgThaO2tDVhNhrtj-XHvMm22kfS_MbCzGceMTTjt26SJakY&amp;s=ULJyvLIlwTDZWjvQsqoes6fwCcIVQE67gO8XWJup3aI&amp;e=

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