[Sbs_software] [EXTERNAL] Re: [Sbs] GEn-II Analysis meeting at 10:00 AM EST

Fri Mar 1 13:55:25 EST 2024

It's worth noting for this purpose that in this experiment, the target spin direction is fixed, and we don't do target "spin flips". As such, although the observable is technically a double-spin asymmetry, we can basically treat it as an effective single-spin asymmetry. 

I am working on a "technical note" trying to develop a mathematical formalism for how we might construct an unbinned maximum-likelihood estimator for A_{en} and/or GEn/GMn. It seems to me to be the best approach for our high-Q^2 points in particular where statistics are low and we are trying to account for a lot of slowly varying parameters over an extended period of time that need to be assigned essentially on an event-by-event basis. For example, in Kin. 4, we may have a total of (optimistically) 10k events spread out over approximately four total MONTHS of running which is, on average, about 3.5 (e,e'n) events per HOUR of running, and things like target polarization and charge asymmetry in particular can be changing on that timescale. 

Andrew

On 3/1/24, 1:49 PM, "David Armstrong" <armd at jlab.org <mailto:armd at jlab.org>> wrote:

Hi Sean,

That looks right! I'm glad the suggestion makes sense. The example
equation I passed along was for an unpolarized target (a parity violation
experiment) so that is why it didn't involve a P_n or P_3He.

I also like Andrew's suggestion to define f_n = 1 – Sum_x f_x; that is a
number that is useful when talking about the result to a non-expert
audience.

Don is also correct that there are, in general, false asymmetries that
may need to be corrected for which don't scale with the beam and target
polarizations. These are corrections, typically at the few ppm, level, that
are critically important for parity experiments, but as I understand it,
are unlikely to be large enough for this experiment to bother trying to
correct for. But, something to be aware of. If we had not controlled the
beam charge asymmetry carefully (the adjustments, for example, that Paul King
made regularly) there could have been a false asymmetry arising from that
for example.

cheers,
David

On 3/1/24 1:04 PM, Donald Jones wrote:
> Hi Sean,
> Yes, it's important to make sure you get the polarization factors right. 
> It is possible to have some corrections that are polarization dependent 
> and others that are only helicity correlated. In the paper David cited, 
> for example, the helicity-correlated corrections include asymmetries 
> from beam position, angle and charge between helicity states which are 
> not functions of polarization and thus require subtraction without the 
> 1/P enhancement. It looks like all the backgrounds you are including 
> are, in fact, polarization dependent and require the 1/P factor you show.
> -Don
> 
> Donald Jones
> Hall A/C Staff Scientist
> Jefferson Lab
> Newport News, VA
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Sbs_software <sbs_software-bounces at jlab.org <mailto:sbs_software-bounces at jlab.org>> on behalf of Sean 
> Jeffas via Sbs_software <sbs_software at jlab.org <mailto:sbs_software at jlab.org>>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 1, 2024 11:58 AM
> *To:* armd at jlab.org <mailto:armd at jlab.org> <armd at jlab.org <mailto:armd at jlab.org>>
> *Cc:* sbs_software at jlab.org <mailto:sbs_software at jlab.org> <sbs_software at jlab.org <mailto:sbs_software at jlab.org>>
> *Subject:* [Sbs_software] [EXTERNAL] Re: [Sbs] GEn-II Analysis meeting 
> at 10:00 AM EST
> Hi David,
> 
> This is great, thank you! I repeated the calculation, with the result 
> highlighted at the end. The only difference I find is the polarization 
> factors come in differently, but I assume this is just a factor from the 
> different experiments.
> 
> Going forward I would like to use this formalism, so if any GEN experts 
> have any objections to it please let me know before I get too deep in.
> 
> Best,
> Sean
> 
> On Thu, Feb 29, 2024 at 12:12 PM David Armstrong <armd at jlab.org <mailto:armd at jlab.org> 
> <mailto:armd at jlab.org <mailto:armd at jlab.org>>> wrote:
> 
> Hi Sean, all,
> 
> The more standard formalism is in Eq. (3) of
> https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.128.132501 <https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.128.132501>
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__journals.aps.org_prl_abstract_10.1103_PhysRevLett.128.132501&d=DwMFaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=QlYVvSkd1eI3G8amPtrE_if6U-4zjeas0cAWa4BvYGo&m=_ntnW4g7gyZJq4xA-avfypqRtzO8e-auZEp21d3weJ-vPwIXW_Lhdg79Jf6FBnNE&s=Z3VEoGrSvQb0ST1OP3q2iBB3c-qHgxGlpKizCn9xa8s&e=> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__journals.aps.org_prl_abstract_10.1103_PhysRevLett.128.132501&d=DwMFaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=QlYVvSkd1eI3G8amPtrE_if6U-4zjeas0cAWa4BvYGo&m=_ntnW4g7gyZJq4xA-avfypqRtzO8e-auZEp21d3weJ-vPwIXW_Lhdg79Jf6FBnNE&s=Z3VEoGrSvQb0ST1OP3q2iBB3c-qHgxGlpKizCn9xa8s&e=>>
> (preprint: https://arxiv.org/abs/2112.15412 <https://arxiv.org/abs/2112.15412>
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__arxiv.org_abs_2112.15412&d=DwMFaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=QlYVvSkd1eI3G8amPtrE_if6U-4zjeas0cAWa4BvYGo&m=_ntnW4g7gyZJq4xA-avfypqRtzO8e-auZEp21d3weJ-vPwIXW_Lhdg79Jf6FBnNE&s=xBf35gGzCxpGc4yKh8NRKnBGySsvVVNdZe3_9DB_Dqc&e=> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__arxiv.org_abs_2112.15412&d=DwMFaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=QlYVvSkd1eI3G8amPtrE_if6U-4zjeas0cAWa4BvYGo&m=_ntnW4g7gyZJq4xA-avfypqRtzO8e-auZEp21d3weJ-vPwIXW_Lhdg79Jf6FBnNE&s=xBf35gGzCxpGc4yKh8NRKnBGySsvVVNdZe3_9DB_Dqc&e=>>)
> 
> with excerpt attached (previous reply was too large to be sent to
> SBS mailing list).
> 
> Hope this makes sense; I can chat with you if something is unclear.
> cheers,
> David
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/29/24 12:07 PM, David Armstrong wrote:
> >
> > Hi Sean,
> >
> > The more standard formalism is in Eq. (3) of the attached
> paper, for
> > example.
> >
> > cheers,
> > David
> >
> >
> > On 2/29/24 11:39 AM, Sean Jeffas via Sbs_software wrote:
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> There was some discussion today about the formalism in which the
> >> asymmetry corrections are applied. See page 307 in Freddy's
> thesis for
> >> how it was done for GEN-I,
> >> https://inspirehep.net/files/03fe72dd8545c3b7f381a8f2fe4ed55d <https://inspirehep.net/files/03fe72dd8545c3b7f381a8f2fe4ed55d>
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__inspirehep.net_files_03fe72dd8545c3b7f381a8f2fe4ed55d&d=DwMFaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=QlYVvSkd1eI3G8amPtrE_if6U-4zjeas0cAWa4BvYGo&m=_ntnW4g7gyZJq4xA-avfypqRtzO8e-auZEp21d3weJ-vPwIXW_Lhdg79Jf6FBnNE&s=UVQvJMWyxco3-zKstD1FwWXIgtBIYjRKQBFT_vJTLf0&e=> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__inspirehep.net_files_03fe72dd8545c3b7f381a8f2fe4ed55d&d=DwMFaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=QlYVvSkd1eI3G8amPtrE_if6U-4zjeas0cAWa4BvYGo&m=_ntnW4g7gyZJq4xA-avfypqRtzO8e-auZEp21d3weJ-vPwIXW_Lhdg79Jf6FBnNE&s=UVQvJMWyxco3-zKstD1FwWXIgtBIYjRKQBFT_vJTLf0&e=>>
> >>
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__inspirehep.net_files_03fe72dd8545c3b7f381a8f2fe4ed55d&d=DwMFaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=QlYVvSkd1eI3G8amPtrE_if6U-4zjeas0cAWa4BvYGo&m=LZDdeeaHEbZ873ONztqhohDVNNC_N1yPLDAqOnzvvgGXsInpVNaltiPNbpEOhmbi&s=lbH8oUFRX7V2Z0EAUH-42tztmis3W-C7vyUY6m1tbFI&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__inspirehep.net_files_03fe72dd8545c3b7f381a8f2fe4ed55d&d=DwMFaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=QlYVvSkd1eI3G8amPtrE_if6U-4zjeas0cAWa4BvYGo&m=LZDdeeaHEbZ873ONztqhohDVNNC_N1yPLDAqOnzvvgGXsInpVNaltiPNbpEOhmbi&s=lbH8oUFRX7V2Z0EAUH-42tztmis3W-C7vyUY6m1tbFI&e=> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__inspirehep.net_files_03fe72dd8545c3b7f381a8f2fe4ed55d&d=DwMFaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=QlYVvSkd1eI3G8amPtrE_if6U-4zjeas0cAWa4BvYGo&m=LZDdeeaHEbZ873ONztqhohDVNNC_N1yPLDAqOnzvvgGXsInpVNaltiPNbpEOhmbi&s=lbH8oUFRX7V2Z0EAUH-42tztmis3W-C7vyUY6m1tbFI&e=>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__inspirehep.net_files_03fe72dd8545c3b7f381a8f2fe4ed55d&d=DwMFaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=QlYVvSkd1eI3G8amPtrE_if6U-4zjeas0cAWa4BvYGo&m=LZDdeeaHEbZ873ONztqhohDVNNC_N1yPLDAqOnzvvgGXsInpVNaltiPNbpEOhmbi&s=lbH8oUFRX7V2Z0EAUH-42tztmis3W-C7vyUY6m1tbFI&e=>>>
> >>
> >> I was following this formalism but it was brought up that there
> is a
> >> more "standard" way. Could someone elaborate on this?
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Sean
> >>
> >> On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 8:26 PM Arun Tadepalli via Sbs
> <sbs at jlab.org <mailto:sbs at jlab.org> <mailto:sbs at jlab.org <mailto:sbs at jlab.org>>
> >> <mailto:sbs at jlab.org <mailto:sbs at jlab.org> <mailto:sbs at jlab.org <mailto:sbs at jlab.org>>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello GEn-II Collaborators,
> >>
> >>
> >> Let’s make the best use of the leap year day and have our GEn-II
> >> analysis meeting on Thursday, 29th of February, at 10:00 am EST.
> >>
> >>
> >> Agenda:
> >>
> >>
> >> 1. Moller Polarimetry Results -> Faraz Chahili
> >>
> >> 2. Asymmetry Corrections -> Sean Jeffas
> >>
> >>
> >> https://jlab-org.zoomgov.com/s/16077967861 <https://jlab-org.zoomgov.com/s/16077967861>
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__jlab-2Dorg.zoomgov.com_s_16077967861&d=DwMFaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=QlYVvSkd1eI3G8amPtrE_if6U-4zjeas0cAWa4BvYGo&m=_ntnW4g7gyZJq4xA-avfypqRtzO8e-auZEp21d3weJ-vPwIXW_Lhdg79Jf6FBnNE&s=RNVAunRcAKISaMrmk3N_-vLCpFvdoDFy6bbnkzFaLzU&e=> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__jlab-2Dorg.zoomgov.com_s_16077967861&d=DwMFaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=QlYVvSkd1eI3G8amPtrE_if6U-4zjeas0cAWa4BvYGo&m=_ntnW4g7gyZJq4xA-avfypqRtzO8e-auZEp21d3weJ-vPwIXW_Lhdg79Jf6FBnNE&s=RNVAunRcAKISaMrmk3N_-vLCpFvdoDFy6bbnkzFaLzU&e=>>
> >>
> >>
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__jlab-2Dorg.zoomgov.com_s_16077967861&d=DwMFaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=QlYVvSkd1eI3G8amPtrE_if6U-4zjeas0cAWa4BvYGo&m=LZDdeeaHEbZ873ONztqhohDVNNC_N1yPLDAqOnzvvgGXsInpVNaltiPNbpEOhmbi&s=laiyuAn7-ev3T-u5uIWRcJfU_3BR7Umdd4klY-ATsvQ&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__jlab-2Dorg.zoomgov.com_s_16077967861&d=DwMFaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=QlYVvSkd1eI3G8amPtrE_if6U-4zjeas0cAWa4BvYGo&m=LZDdeeaHEbZ873ONztqhohDVNNC_N1yPLDAqOnzvvgGXsInpVNaltiPNbpEOhmbi&s=laiyuAn7-ev3T-u5uIWRcJfU_3BR7Umdd4klY-ATsvQ&e=> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__jlab-2Dorg.zoomgov.com_s_16077967861&d=DwMFaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=QlYVvSkd1eI3G8amPtrE_if6U-4zjeas0cAWa4BvYGo&m=LZDdeeaHEbZ873ONztqhohDVNNC_N1yPLDAqOnzvvgGXsInpVNaltiPNbpEOhmbi&s=laiyuAn7-ev3T-u5uIWRcJfU_3BR7Umdd4klY-ATsvQ&e=>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__jlab-2Dorg.zoomgov.com_s_16077967861&d=DwMFaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=QlYVvSkd1eI3G8amPtrE_if6U-4zjeas0cAWa4BvYGo&m=LZDdeeaHEbZ873ONztqhohDVNNC_N1yPLDAqOnzvvgGXsInpVNaltiPNbpEOhmbi&s=laiyuAn7-ev3T-u5uIWRcJfU_3BR7Umdd4klY-ATsvQ&e=>>>
> >>
> >>
> >> The wiki page for this meeting can be found here:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://sbs.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/GEn_Analysis_Meeting_February_29_2024_10AM_EST <https://sbs.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/GEn_Analysis_Meeting_February_29_2024_10AM_EST> <https://sbs.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/GEn_Analysis_Meeting_February_29_2024_10AM_EST> <https://sbs.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/GEn_Analysis_Meeting_February_29_2024_10AM_EST>> <https://sbs.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/GEn_Analysis_Meeting_February_29_2024_10AM_EST <https://sbs.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/GEn_Analysis_Meeting_February_29_2024_10AM_EST> <https://sbs.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/GEn_Analysis_Meeting_February_29_2024_10AM_EST>> <https://sbs.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/GEn_Analysis_Meeting_February_29_2024_10AM_EST>>>
> >>
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >>
> >> Arun
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sbs mailing list
> >> Sbs at jlab.org <mailto:Sbs at jlab.org> <mailto:Sbs at jlab.org <mailto:Sbs at jlab.org>> <mailto:Sbs at jlab.org <mailto:Sbs at jlab.org>
> <mailto:Sbs at jlab.org <mailto:Sbs at jlab.org>>>
> >> https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/sbs <https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/sbs>
> <https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/sbs> <https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/sbs>>
> >> <https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/sbs <https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/sbs>
> <https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/sbs>> <https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/sbs>>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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