[Tensor] [EXTERNAL] Proposed new meeting time

Fri Sep 1 19:26:56 EDT 2023

Hi Karl,

I agree that regular working group meetings are needed. The calendar you
suggest is a useful starting point. It could, of course, be modified later
as needed.

Your suggestion of running at the start of the Moller experiment is
attractive, but it implies that the technical issue of the polarization is
resolved no later than mid-2025, to pass the ERR and leave time for the
JLab calendar to be reprogrammed for a deuteron tensor run a year later.

This implies that there's about 18-20 months left to actually polarize
cold irradiated ND3 to at least 26%. Besides SpinQuest, which might be an
unrealizable option, since materials would need to be irradiated no later
than end of 2024, the other option might be to try at least the LAr
irradiation at JLab, requesting to delay the 2024 CEBAF down for a couple
of days to irradiate in some location at the injector or something like
that.

Then there might be time to take the ammonia to SpinQuest to do some cold
irradiation sometime in mid- or late 2024, leaving a narrow margin of time
to polarize and ask for an ERR in mid-2025.

Another, unlikely option, would be to retry the MIRF facility at NIST,
where the UVA target group used to irradiate, but now I believe is not
accessible. Maybe JLab could submit a request on behalf of the
collaboration that might get favorable reception if there were any time
open in NIST's schedule. I recall that one, at most two, days are needed.

In any case, independent of the specific tensor polarization requirements,
some form of irradiating ammonia and other polarized target materials
needs to be identified for polarized target experiments to continue being
done at JLab.

Cheers,

Oscar

> Excellent points Oscar; I mostly agree but still think we need a (less
> frequent) forum to keep us focused on preparing for the ERR.
>
> And in my opinion, our goal should not be 2027, but to run when Moller
> starts. The schedule is beyond our control, but we should put ourselves in
> the best position to take data, regardless of what happens to
> Hypernuclear.  That suggests we need to prepare for an ERR in 2024 or 2025
> which is not long from now at all.
>
> So based on all feedback received so far, I propose we move to meeting
> every other week on Friday’s at 1:30pm ET, starting on September 8.  We
> can alternate between ERR prep (including irradiations) and discussion of
> new proposals (i.e. exclusive d(e,e’p), dvcs, 
.)
>
> Please let me know if this doesn’t work for anyone who wishes to
> participate.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -karl
>
>
>
> From: Tensor <tensor-bounces at jlab.org> on behalf of rondon--- via Tensor
> <tensor at jlab.org>
> Date: Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 3:54 PM
> To: Karl Slifer <Karl.Slifer at unh.edu>
> Cc: tensor at jlab.org <tensor at jlab.org>
> Subject: Re: [Tensor] [EXTERNAL] Poll: New Weekly Meeting Time
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the University System. Do
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>
>
> Hi deuteron b1 fans,
>
> Although it's important to continue working to prepare for the ERR, it
> seems to me that the weekly meeting frequency needs to be modified in view
> of the following considerations:
>
> 1. According to Doug's accelerator schedule presented at PAC 51, the
> likely earliest date for the experiment to take beam would be July 2027,
> with the ERR not earlier than one year before that. It wouldn't seem
> likely that a weekly meeting frequency can be kept over such a long
> period.
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Findico.jlab.org-252Fevent-252F723-252Fcontributions-252F12925-252Fattachments-252F10104-252F15033-252FHiginbotham-2DPAC51.pdf-26data-3D05-257C01-257Ckarl.slifer-2540unh.edu-257C04b30eaec0f14efc63ab08dba8d1f147-257Cd6241893512d46dc8d2bbe47e25f5666-257C0-257C0-257C638289392754428144-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C3000-257C-257C-257C-26sdata-3Dp4P4hS2Q8Q-252FnY6tKLrpif4oOZk3C8mPzUg8LzgbS0rc-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwIF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=yQCnSPmftBTq3V4I4JqZ3g&m=yVy3WMEg0oPYtTJ55r-UbHT2NZw523Hbp1FA0h6vozCD_bqlhCRMWFI9aK4XsRP_&s=iAO-Hv3HiWBH-UUtnximuYUW1Km68az_2svlqz0eEJA&e=
> <https://indico.jlab.org/event/723/contributions/12925/attachments/10104/15033/Higinbotham-PAC51.pdf>
>
> 2. The Conditional review report items on charges 3 and 4 (which I seem to
> recall were also mentioned at the Jeopardy review presentation,) regarding
> the need to prove that the required tensor polarization can be achieved in
> ND3, is the defining issue that needs to be resolved before any
> consideration of beam time request and related ERR.
>
> As we know and it's also mentioned in the CR report, high vector
> polarization ND3 needs to be prepared by irradiation at both LAr and 1K,
> to be able to carry out realistic tests of actual tensor polarization by
> any technique.
>
> So my suggestion for the collaboration would be to focus next on figuring
> out where and how cold irradiations can be done. One option that could be
> explored is to request the SpinQuest collaboration at Fermilab to allow
> the insertion of the LAr irradiation dewar in the beam to prepare
> material, and perhaps to put some loads in the target itself just to get
> the cold irradiated stuff. I realize it's not an electron beam, but
> ammonia has been irradiated in proton beams, like Brookhaven's, in the
> past.
>
> I'm aware that polarized target work at Fermilab is considerably less easy
> to do than at JLab, but a mutually convenient accomodation could be
> arranged with the lab and with SpinQuest. Also, since UNH is collaborating
> on SpinQuest,
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fspinquest.fnal.gov-252Fcollaboration-252F-26data-3D05-257C01-257Ckarl.slifer-2540unh.edu-257C04b30eaec0f14efc63ab08dba8d1f147-257Cd6241893512d46dc8d2bbe47e25f5666-257C0-257C0-257C638289392754428144-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C3000-257C-257C-257C-26sdata-3DM50m7Znn7rzdNRGkS-252BaWAI4ZkP6xd7BeX68h71uVNSk-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwIF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=yQCnSPmftBTq3V4I4JqZ3g&m=yVy3WMEg0oPYtTJ55r-UbHT2NZw523Hbp1FA0h6vozCD_bqlhCRMWFI9aK4XsRP_&s=62mfXRtaO_qYhnGr0qHoRAD5n5KJx4ldTHwUzMBQs6Y&e=
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__spinquest.fnal.gov_collaboration_&d=DwIF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=yQCnSPmftBTq3V4I4JqZ3g&m=yVy3WMEg0oPYtTJ55r-UbHT2NZw523Hbp1FA0h6vozCD_bqlhCRMWFI9aK4XsRP_&s=3MZYX77p5uSyfULwgqsg78ETB9_vFCDUqXtrH9eOKk8&e=
> >
>
> it could also be an opportunity to train users on in-beam NH3 polarized
> target operation, even if it's not at an electron beam facility.
>
> Since beam time at SpinQuest may be coming up soon, it might be a good
> idea to explore this option with priority. It's quite possible that Dustin
> and others might have already considered it and discarded it as not
> feasible. I'm bringing it up in case it might somehow be open.
>
> In summary, I would reiterate that the focus after the successful jeopardy
> PAC should be to tensor polarize ND3 to the level required to meet the
> ERR. I don't think weekly meetings would be as useful at this time.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Oscar
>
>
>
>
>> Hi all,
>> Our meeting time (Tues 4pm EST) for the tensor group conflicts with the
> teaching schedule of some participants.  Please take 30 seconds at the
> following poll to help find a new meeting time.
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Furldefense.proofpoint.com-252Fv2-252Furl-253Fu-253Dhttps-2D3A-5F-5Fwww.when2meet.com-5F-2D3F21069019-2D2DZNdhv-2526d-253DDwIFAg-2526c-253DCJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw-2526r-253DmbL-2D4Mr65FbyCWqCw73luw-2526m-253Dr6tTQIvoVemTXlgN50Uo0ul1-2DCFnXEjYxFprTC3EbS-2DzIh4SFySeaEuxcTLxvyJA-2526s-253DZzB1UiGQbWeCRZbT-2DmgluzbSXBPqPTAB7eoDNk2Pjw0-2526e-253D-26data-3D05-257C01-257Ckarl.slifer-2540unh.edu-257C04b30eaec0f14efc63ab08dba8d1f147-257Cd6241893512d46dc8d2bbe47e25f5666-257C0-257C0-257C638289392754428144-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C3000-257C-257C-257C-26sdata-3DBOSIXKqp7wO8tpc7LSn-252FhFrkVdJSDOv9KxrHiyOejIo-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwIF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=yQCnSPmftBTq3V4I4JqZ3g&m=yVy3WMEg0oPYtTJ55r-UbHT2NZw523Hbp1FA0h6vozCD_bqlhCRMWFI9aK4XsRP_&s=eRosqiT9Dx6aF3jy3Jyb-GaRtMRBGatona9L-GuLkQc&e=
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.when2meet.com_-3F21069019-2DZNdhv&d=DwIFAg&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=mbL-4Mr65FbyCWqCw73luw&m=r6tTQIvoVemTXlgN50Uo0ul1-CFnXEjYxFprTC3EbS-zIh4SFySeaEuxcTLxvyJA&s=ZzB1UiGQbWeCRZbT-mgluzbSXBPqPTAB7eoDNk2Pjw0&e=>
> thanks!
>> Karl
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