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<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="elementToProof">
yes, I will do what I can to learn exactly what the requirements and constraints are according to NIST and then pass it on to this list. That may take a while as they don't really reply to emails about these things but in person, it's a bit different so it
may all have to wait until October.</div>
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In general, I think we need to have a collaborative effort to get all of these target challenges taken care of with both a first-level plan and a backup plan. I can write what I'm thinking here or we can wait and have a meeting about it. Whichever folks prefer.</div>
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thanks</div>
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dustin</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> rondon@jlab.org <rondon@jlab.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, September 2, 2023 4:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Keller, D (dmk9m) <dustin@virginia.edu><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Karl Slifer <karl.slifer@unh.edu>; rondon@jlab.org <rondon@jlab.org>; tensor@jlab.org <tensor@jlab.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tensor] [EXTERNAL] Proposed new meeting time</font>
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<div class="PlainText">Hi Dustin,<br>
<br>
Thank you very much for clarifying the situation at NIST. As you point<br>
out, it surely must be very difficult for just one user to do the whole<br>
job.<br>
<br>
It looks like getting additional users to qualify is a lenghty process, but<br>
that should not discourage other collaborator groups to apply for getting<br>
authorized. It might be easier for faculty and research associates than<br>
for students to meet some of the requirements or to get any additional<br>
required training.<br>
<br>
Maybe the tensor collaboration could also request the guidance and support<br>
of JLab's ES&H on how to best meet the requirements, perhaps asking them<br>
to contact NIST to work on getting some joint qualification, etc.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Oscar<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> Hi Oscar,<br>
><br>
> We continue to irradiate at NIST. In fact, we provided all the warm<br>
> irradiated target material for the series of polarized target experiments<br>
> in CLAS12 that were recently completed. Our next irradiation is scheduled<br>
> for the first week of October. The disadvantage to NIST is that I am the<br>
> only person allowed by their ES&H to actually do anything. We've been<br>
> trying to get a student of mine qualified and documented to be able to do<br>
> it but it's taken over a year so far. So, outside of myself, people can<br>
> only come and watch right now.<br>
><br>
> This makes things very hard...but still possible, and we are on the<br>
> calendar.<br>
><br>
> ________________________________<br>
> From: Tensor <tensor-bounces@jlab.org> on behalf of rondon--- via Tensor<br>
> <tensor@jlab.org><br>
> Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 7:26 PM<br>
> To: Karl Slifer <Karl.Slifer@unh.edu><br>
> Cc: tensor@jlab.org <tensor@jlab.org><br>
> Subject: Re: [Tensor] [EXTERNAL] Proposed new meeting time<br>
><br>
> Hi Karl,<br>
><br>
> I agree that regular working group meetings are needed. The calendar you<br>
> suggest is a useful starting point. It could, of course, be modified later<br>
> as needed.<br>
><br>
> Your suggestion of running at the start of the Moller experiment is<br>
> attractive, but it implies that the technical issue of the polarization is<br>
> resolved no later than mid-2025, to pass the ERR and leave time for the<br>
> JLab calendar to be reprogrammed for a deuteron tensor run a year later.<br>
><br>
> This implies that there's about 18-20 months left to actually polarize<br>
> cold irradiated ND3 to at least 26%. Besides SpinQuest, which might be an<br>
> unrealizable option, since materials would need to be irradiated no later<br>
> than end of 2024, the other option might be to try at least the LAr<br>
> irradiation at JLab, requesting to delay the 2024 CEBAF down for a couple<br>
> of days to irradiate in some location at the injector or something like<br>
> that.<br>
><br>
> Then there might be time to take the ammonia to SpinQuest to do some cold<br>
> irradiation sometime in mid- or late 2024, leaving a narrow margin of time<br>
> to polarize and ask for an ERR in mid-2025.<br>
><br>
> Another, unlikely option, would be to retry the MIRF facility at NIST,<br>
> where the UVA target group used to irradiate, but now I believe is not<br>
> accessible. Maybe JLab could submit a request on behalf of the<br>
> collaboration that might get favorable reception if there were any time<br>
> open in NIST's schedule. I recall that one, at most two, days are needed.<br>
><br>
> In any case, independent of the specific tensor polarization requirements,<br>
> some form of irradiating ammonia and other polarized target materials<br>
> needs to be identified for polarized target experiments to continue being<br>
> done at JLab.<br>
><br>
> Cheers,<br>
><br>
> Oscar<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>> Excellent points Oscar; I mostly agree but still think we need a (less<br>
>> frequent) forum to keep us focused on preparing for the ERR.<br>
>><br>
>> And in my opinion, our goal should not be 2027, but to run when Moller<br>
>> starts. The schedule is beyond our control, but we should put ourselves<br>
>> in<br>
>> the best position to take data, regardless of what happens to<br>
>> Hypernuclear. That suggests we need to prepare for an ERR in 2024 or<br>
>> 2025<br>
>> which is not long from now at all.<br>
>><br>
>> So based on all feedback received so far, I propose we move to meeting<br>
>> every other week on Friday’s at 1:30pm ET, starting on September 8. We<br>
>> can alternate between ERR prep (including irradiations) and discussion<br>
>> of<br>
>> new proposals (i.e. exclusive d(e,e’p), dvcs, ….)<br>
>><br>
>> Please let me know if this doesn’t work for anyone who wishes to<br>
>> participate.<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks!<br>
>><br>
>> -karl<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> From: Tensor <tensor-bounces@jlab.org> on behalf of rondon--- via Tensor<br>
>> <tensor@jlab.org><br>
>> Date: Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 3:54 PM<br>
>> To: Karl Slifer <Karl.Slifer@unh.edu><br>
>> Cc: tensor@jlab.org <tensor@jlab.org><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Tensor] [EXTERNAL] Poll: New Weekly Meeting Time<br>
>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the University System. Do<br>
>> not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and<br>
>> know the content is safe.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Hi deuteron b1 fans,<br>
>><br>
>> Although it's important to continue working to prepare for the ERR, it<br>
>> seems to me that the weekly meeting frequency needs to be modified in<br>
>> view<br>
>> of the following considerations:<br>
>><br>
>> 1. According to Doug's accelerator schedule presented at PAC 51, the<br>
>> likely earliest date for the experiment to take beam would be July 2027,<br>
>> with the ERR not earlier than one year before that. It wouldn't seem<br>
>> likely that a weekly meeting frequency can be kept over such a long<br>
>> period.<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Findico.jlab.org-252Fevent-252F723-252Fcontributions-252F12925-252Fattachments-252F10104-252F15033-252FHiginbotham-2DPAC51.pdf-26data-3D05-257C01-257Ckarl.slifer-2540unh.edu-257C04b30eaec0f14efc63ab08dba8d1f147-257Cd6241893512d46dc8d2bbe47e25f5666-257C0-257C0-257C638289392754428144-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C3000-257C-257C-257C-26sdata-3Dp4P4hS2Q8Q-252FnY6tKLrpif4oOZk3C8mPzUg8LzgbS0rc-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwIF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=yQCnSPmftBTq3V4I4JqZ3g&m=yVy3WMEg0oPYtTJ55r-UbHT2NZw523Hbp1FA0h6vozCD_bqlhCRMWFI9aK4XsRP_&s=iAO-Hv3HiWBH-UUtnximuYUW1Km68az_2svlqz0eEJA&e=" data-auth="NotApplicable" id="OWA97eadd0d-40f9-adf9-6e6c-6154349ec440" class="OWAAutoLink">
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>> <<a href="https://indico.jlab.org/event/723/contributions/12925/attachments/10104/15033/Higinbotham-PAC51.pdf" data-auth="NotApplicable" id="OWAafba830a-bdb2-c8a8-3f11-ab273ed0b91c" class="OWAAutoLink">https://indico.jlab.org/event/723/contributions/12925/attachments/10104/15033/Higinbotham-PAC51.pdf</a>><br>
>><br>
>> 2. The Conditional review report items on charges 3 and 4 (which I seem<br>
>> to<br>
>> recall were also mentioned at the Jeopardy review presentation,)<br>
>> regarding<br>
>> the need to prove that the required tensor polarization can be achieved<br>
>> in<br>
>> ND3, is the defining issue that needs to be resolved before any<br>
>> consideration of beam time request and related ERR.<br>
>><br>
>> As we know and it's also mentioned in the CR report, high vector<br>
>> polarization ND3 needs to be prepared by irradiation at both LAr and 1K,<br>
>> to be able to carry out realistic tests of actual tensor polarization by<br>
>> any technique.<br>
>><br>
>> So my suggestion for the collaboration would be to focus next on<br>
>> figuring<br>
>> out where and how cold irradiations can be done. One option that could<br>
>> be<br>
>> explored is to request the SpinQuest collaboration at Fermilab to allow<br>
>> the insertion of the LAr irradiation dewar in the beam to prepare<br>
>> material, and perhaps to put some loads in the target itself just to get<br>
>> the cold irradiated stuff. I realize it's not an electron beam, but<br>
>> ammonia has been irradiated in proton beams, like Brookhaven's, in the<br>
>> past.<br>
>><br>
>> I'm aware that polarized target work at Fermilab is considerably less<br>
>> easy<br>
>> to do than at JLab, but a mutually convenient accomodation could be<br>
>> arranged with the lab and with SpinQuest. Also, since UNH is<br>
>> collaborating<br>
>> on SpinQuest,<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fspinquest.fnal.gov-252Fcollaboration-252F-26data-3D05-257C01-257Ckarl.slifer-2540unh.edu-257C04b30eaec0f14efc63ab08dba8d1f147-257Cd6241893512d46dc8d2bbe47e25f5666-257C0-257C0-257C638289392754428144-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C3000-257C-257C-257C-26sdata-3DM50m7Znn7rzdNRGkS-252BaWAI4ZkP6xd7BeX68h71uVNSk-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwIF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=yQCnSPmftBTq3V4I4JqZ3g&m=yVy3WMEg0oPYtTJ55r-UbHT2NZw523Hbp1FA0h6vozCD_bqlhCRMWFI9aK4XsRP_&s=62mfXRtaO_qYhnGr0qHoRAD5n5KJx4ldTHwUzMBQs6Y&e=" data-auth="NotApplicable" id="OWA0c988d9e-ca48-87de-3108-0673a21701e0" class="OWAAutoLink">
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fspinquest.fnal.gov-252Fcollaboration-252F-26data-3D05-257C01-257Ckarl.slifer-2540unh.edu-257C04b30eaec0f14efc63ab08dba8d1f147-257Cd6241893512d46dc8d2bbe47e25f5666-257C0-257C0-257C638289392754428144-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C3000-257C-257C-257C-26sdata-3DM50m7Znn7rzdNRGkS-252BaWAI4ZkP6xd7BeX68h71uVNSk-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwIF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=yQCnSPmftBTq3V4I4JqZ3g&m=yVy3WMEg0oPYtTJ55r-UbHT2NZw523Hbp1FA0h6vozCD_bqlhCRMWFI9aK4XsRP_&s=62mfXRtaO_qYhnGr0qHoRAD5n5KJx4ldTHwUzMBQs6Y&e=</a><br>
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__spinquest.fnal.gov_collaboration_&d=DwIF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=yQCnSPmftBTq3V4I4JqZ3g&m=yVy3WMEg0oPYtTJ55r-UbHT2NZw523Hbp1FA0h6vozCD_bqlhCRMWFI9aK4XsRP_&s=3MZYX77p5uSyfULwgqsg78ETB9_vFCDUqXtrH9eOKk8&e=<br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> it could also be an opportunity to train users on in-beam NH3 polarized<br>
>> target operation, even if it's not at an electron beam facility.<br>
>><br>
>> Since beam time at SpinQuest may be coming up soon, it might be a good<br>
>> idea to explore this option with priority. It's quite possible that<br>
>> Dustin<br>
>> and others might have already considered it and discarded it as not<br>
>> feasible. I'm bringing it up in case it might somehow be open.<br>
>><br>
>> In summary, I would reiterate that the focus after the successful<br>
>> jeopardy<br>
>> PAC should be to tensor polarize ND3 to the level required to meet the<br>
>> ERR. I don't think weekly meetings would be as useful at this time.<br>
>><br>
>> Cheers,<br>
>><br>
>> Oscar<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> Hi all,<br>
>>> Our meeting time (Tues 4pm EST) for the tensor group conflicts with the<br>
>> teaching schedule of some participants. Please take 30 seconds at the<br>
>> following poll to help find a new meeting time.<br>
>>> <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Furldefense.proofpoint.com-252Fv2-252Furl-253Fu-253Dhttps-2D3A-5F-5Fwww.when2meet.com-5F-2D3F21069019-2D2DZNdhv-2526d-253DDwIFAg-2526c-253DCJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw-2526r-253DmbL-2D4Mr65FbyCWqCw73luw-2526m-253Dr6tTQIvoVemTXlgN50Uo0ul1-2DCFnXEjYxFprTC3EbS-2DzIh4SFySeaEuxcTLxvyJA-2526s-253DZzB1UiGQbWeCRZbT-2DmgluzbSXBPqPTAB7eoDNk2Pjw0-2526e-253D-26data-3D05-257C01-257Ckarl.slifer-2540unh.edu-257C04b30eaec0f14efc63ab08dba8d1f147-257Cd6241893512d46dc8d2bbe47e25f5666-257C0-257C0-257C638289392754428144-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C3000-257C-257C-257C-26sdata-3DBOSIXKqp7wO8tpc7LSn-252FhFrkVdJSDOv9KxrHiyOejIo-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwIF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=yQCnSPmftBTq3V4I4JqZ3g&m=yVy3WMEg0oPYtTJ55r-UbHT2NZw523Hbp1FA0h6vozCD_bqlhCRMWFI9aK4XsRP_&s=eRosqiT9Dx6aF3jy3Jyb-GaRtMRBGatona9L-GuLkQc&e=" data-auth="NotApplicable" id="OWAb209073e-5579-38c9-9b5e-7b4406a7ecc6" class="OWAAutoLink">
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>>> <<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.when2meet.com_-3F21069019-2DZNdhv&d=DwIFAg&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=mbL-4Mr65FbyCWqCw73luw&m=r6tTQIvoVemTXlgN50Uo0ul1-CFnXEjYxFprTC3EbS-zIh4SFySeaEuxcTLxvyJA&s=ZzB1UiGQbWeCRZbT-mgluzbSXBPqPTAB7eoDNk2Pjw0&e=" data-auth="NotApplicable" id="OWAcd2599c3-dafa-ad98-91c1-32753ed51cd2" class="OWAAutoLink">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.when2meet.com_-3F21069019-2DZNdhv&d=DwIFAg&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=mbL-4Mr65FbyCWqCw73luw&m=r6tTQIvoVemTXlgN50Uo0ul1-CFnXEjYxFprTC3EbS-zIh4SFySeaEuxcTLxvyJA&s=ZzB1UiGQbWeCRZbT-mgluzbSXBPqPTAB7eoDNk2Pjw0&e=</a>><br>
>> thanks!<br>
>>> Karl<br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Tensor mailing list<br>
>>> Tensor@jlab.org<br>
>>> <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fmailman.jlab.org-252Fmailman-252Flistinfo-252Ftensor-26data-3D05-257C01-257Ckarl.slifer-2540unh.edu-257C04b30eaec0f14efc63ab08dba8d1f147-257Cd6241893512d46dc8d2bbe47e25f5666-257C0-257C0-257C638289392754428144-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C3000-257C-257C-257C-26sdata-3DCGLD1aqKF34ipWrfOTAs68hPnEhD7P9mGTojedxJ1w4-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwIF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=yQCnSPmftBTq3V4I4JqZ3g&m=yVy3WMEg0oPYtTJ55r-UbHT2NZw523Hbp1FA0h6vozCD_bqlhCRMWFI9aK4XsRP_&s=66XqtL-f7OwAVcAAw1kbC2hxEI27IdnJ05Xpo59iT4s&e=" data-auth="NotApplicable" id="OWAcb53275f-265c-a042-81a6-bf1460de8ff7" class="OWAAutoLink">
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fmailman.jlab.org-252Fmailman-252Flistinfo-252Ftensor-26data-3D05-257C01-257Ckarl.slifer-2540unh.edu-257C04b30eaec0f14efc63ab08dba8d1f147-257Cd6241893512d46dc8d2bbe47e25f5666-257C0-257C0-257C638289392754428144-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C3000-257C-257C-257C-26sdata-3DCGLD1aqKF34ipWrfOTAs68hPnEhD7P9mGTojedxJ1w4-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwIF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=yQCnSPmftBTq3V4I4JqZ3g&m=yVy3WMEg0oPYtTJ55r-UbHT2NZw523Hbp1FA0h6vozCD_bqlhCRMWFI9aK4XsRP_&s=66XqtL-f7OwAVcAAw1kbC2hxEI27IdnJ05Xpo59iT4s&e=</a><br>
>>> <<a href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/tensor" data-auth="NotApplicable" id="OWA11a5b341-f372-3d09-b462-eeae0b0ccb8d" class="OWAAutoLink">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/tensor</a>><br>
>><br>
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>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Tensor mailing list<br>
>> Tensor@jlab.org<br>
>> <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fmailman.jlab.org-252Fmailman-252Flistinfo-252Ftensor-26data-3D05-257C01-257Ckarl.slifer-2540unh.edu-257C04b30eaec0f14efc63ab08dba8d1f147-257Cd6241893512d46dc8d2bbe47e25f5666-257C0-257C0-257C638289392754428144-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C3000-257C-257C-257C-26sdata-3DCGLD1aqKF34ipWrfOTAs68hPnEhD7P9mGTojedxJ1w4-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwIF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=yQCnSPmftBTq3V4I4JqZ3g&m=yVy3WMEg0oPYtTJ55r-UbHT2NZw523Hbp1FA0h6vozCD_bqlhCRMWFI9aK4XsRP_&s=66XqtL-f7OwAVcAAw1kbC2hxEI27IdnJ05Xpo59iT4s&e=" data-auth="NotApplicable" id="OWA64a58994-e974-87db-6fb2-cc58455913c7" class="OWAAutoLink">
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fmailman.jlab.org-252Fmailman-252Flistinfo-252Ftensor-26data-3D05-257C01-257Ckarl.slifer-2540unh.edu-257C04b30eaec0f14efc63ab08dba8d1f147-257Cd6241893512d46dc8d2bbe47e25f5666-257C0-257C0-257C638289392754428144-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C3000-257C-257C-257C-26sdata-3DCGLD1aqKF34ipWrfOTAs68hPnEhD7P9mGTojedxJ1w4-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwIF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=yQCnSPmftBTq3V4I4JqZ3g&m=yVy3WMEg0oPYtTJ55r-UbHT2NZw523Hbp1FA0h6vozCD_bqlhCRMWFI9aK4XsRP_&s=66XqtL-f7OwAVcAAw1kbC2hxEI27IdnJ05Xpo59iT4s&e=</a><br>
>> <<a href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/tensor" data-auth="NotApplicable" id="OWAeefcd927-ce70-90c6-297f-c078096436ec" class="OWAAutoLink">https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/tensor</a>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Tensor mailing list<br>
> Tensor@jlab.org<br>
> <a href="https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/tensor" data-auth="NotApplicable" id="OWA16bcdcdc-c566-57c4-6bbd-a4300e5f5289" class="OWAAutoLink">
https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/tensor</a><br>
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