[dsg-eic_dirc] Readout for the DIRC QA laser lab

[Brian Eng]

Hamamatsu recommends fairly similar op-amp circuits.

https://www.hamamatsu.com/content/dam/hamamatsu-photonics/sites/documents/99_SALES_LIBRARY/ssd/si_pd_circuit_e.pdf

They also have already made amplifier boxes, but I'm not sure about pricing/lead time on theirs compared to the Thorlabs ones.

________________________________
From: Grzegorz Kalicy <gkalicy at jlab.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 8:52 PM
To: Tyler Lemon <tlemon at jlab.org>; Brian Eng <beng at jlab.org>
Cc: dsg-eic_dirc at jlab.org <dsg-eic_dirc at jlab.org>; Fernando Barbosa <barbosa at jlab.org>; Jochen Schwiening <J.Schwiening at gsi.de>
Subject: Re: [dsg-eic_dirc] Readout for the DIRC QA laser lab

Thanks Tyler and Brian,

Joe mentioned that old SLAC setup used two Hewlett Packard HP 34401A multimeters, the

current from the Hamamatsu silicone photodiode S1337-101BQ (the same as the S2281) was typically 50-200microAmp for the

resistor, using a 5V power supply.


Fernando after looking at the specs pointed out:

"

For the 325 nm line, their offerings range from 2 mW to 100 mW and the photodiode has a responsivity of ~0.15  A/W (@325 nm). The current range is then 300 uA to 15 mA; measuring voltage with a 50 Ohm load, the range is 15 mV to 750 mV and you can easily increase these values with a larger resistor.



For the 442 nm line, their offerings range from 15 mW to 180 mW and the photodiode has a responsivity of ~0.25  A/W (@442 nm). The current range is then 3.75 mA to 45 mA; measuring voltage with a 50 Ohm load, the range is 190 mV to 2.25 V.

"


Btw. can we add Joe to dsg-eic_dirc mailing list?


Cheers,


Greg



________________________________
From: Tyler Lemon <tlemon at jlab.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 7:47 AM
To: Brian Eng <beng at jlab.org>; Grzegorz Kalicy <gkalicy at jlab.org>
Cc: dsg-eic_dirc at jlab.org <dsg-eic_dirc at jlab.org>
Subject: Re: [dsg-eic_dirc] Readout for the DIRC QA laser lab

For transimpedance amplifiers, the more simple, ~$1k option from Thorlabs looks to be their series designed for photodiodes (link below).

https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_ID=7083

The one "catch" with these is that the maximum rated input current is around 2 mA.

There are some benchtop options (links below) that allow up to 10 mA, but that also comes with a bigger $2k - $3.5k price tag for reading out two photodiodes.

Two PDA200C's
https://www.thorlabs.com/thorproduct.cfm?partnumber=PDA200C

One PRO800 with one PDA8000-2
https://www.thorlabs.com/thorproduct.cfm?partnumber=PRO800
https://www.thorlabs.com/thorproduct.cfm?partnumber=PDA8000-2



Do you all have any records or anything on the current seen from the photodiodes from previous tests?

The ~12 mA I mentioned earlier was calculated using specs from the laser manufacturer's tests and the photodiode manual. After talking to Brian, 12 mA seems high for photodiodes. I can't really think of a way to actually find out the currents we'll see without setting up the laser (we can't do this yet since the safety documentation is in progress).

-Tyler
________________________________
From: Brian Eng <beng at jlab.org>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2022 5:03 PM
To: Grzegorz Kalicy <gkalicy at jlab.org>
Cc: Tyler Lemon <tlemon at jlab.org>; dsg-eic_dirc at jlab.org <dsg-eic_dirc at jlab.org>
Subject: Re: [dsg-eic_dirc] Readout for the DIRC QA laser lab

I think Tyler mentioned that particular Keithley because we've used it before for doing small current measurements on silicon sensors for the CLAS12 SVT. I don't know what its availability would be for use in the DIRC test setup.



You can do a simple resistor, but you'll most likely run into noise/speed issues.

At the very least if you wanted to make a circuit yourself you'd want to do something with an op-amp.

Here's some slides with a pretty good overview of the issues with reading out a photodiode:
https://e2e.ti.com/cfs-file/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/14/4370.PhotodiodeAmplifers.pdf

And some circuit diagrams:
https://www.ti.com/lit/an/sboa061/sboa061.pdf
https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/Appnotes/01494A.pdf



A transimpedance amplifier is what I'd go with rather than spending the time/effort trying to develop a circuit in house, with the caveat that the output of the photodiode needs to verified as most of those don't handle a lot of current. Once it is a voltage output there are all sorts of ways to read that into whatever the DAQ system ends up being.

> On Sep 26, 2022, at 4:40 PM, Grzegorz Kalicy <gkalicy at jlab.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Tyler,
>
> Thanks a lot for quick feedback!
>
> I think we would like to change readout to voltage, it seems to be easier to handle. One person suggested I need a transimpedance amplifier for that but other said a simple resistor suffices... would it be part of the circuit from page 2 in spec:
> https://www.thorlabs.com/drawings/d3c75d389e4cb97e-309FEEC9-C8A5-6AE6-44C9015816931D45/SM1PD2A-SpecSheet.pdf
> ?
>  It seems 5V is required only for pulsed lasers and I have constant wave so we can just ground the cathode. Could we solder these circuits at JLab?
>
> If we would indeed switch to voltage, what would you suggest? And you were right about reading out two channels.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Greg
> From: Tyler Lemon <tlemon at jlab.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2022 12:22 PM
> To: Grzegorz Kalicy <gkalicy at jlab.org>; dsg-eic_dirc at jlab.org <dsg-eic_dirc at jlab.org>
> Subject: Re: Readout for the DIRC QA laser lab
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> That is something that I can help out with.
>
> From the specs of the photodiodes and laser, it looks like the maximum current we can expect (if everything is perfect and everything behaves ideally) is ~12 mA when the 442-nm wavelength is used. It also looks like we'll have two photodiodes to measure at the same time during tests.
>
> With that, something like a Keithley Model 6482, dual-channel picoammeter could be helpful.
>
> This picoammeter has a readout range of 1 fA - 20 mA and also has built-in GPIB and RS-232 interfaces for remote control in addition to a local readout screen.
> It's base cost is ~$6,500 according to their website
>
> Does this fit into what you're looking for in terms of "quick" and "relatively cheap"?
>
>
> -Tyler
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Grzegorz Kalicy <gkalicy at jlab.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2022 1:24 PM
> To: Tyler Lemon <tlemon at jlab.org>
> Subject: Readout for the DIRC QA laser lab
>
> Hi Tyler,
>
> As I mentioned some time ago I'm trying to avoid unnecessarily complicated readout for photodiodes that we used in original setup in GSI. However, I'm struggling a bit with finding best option (quick, relatively cheap, and useable later for final automatized setup version). Who in DSG I could reach out for advise?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Greg
> _______________________________________________
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