[Dsg-mvt] Mixing system

Wed Sep 13 14:49:57 EDT 2017

Hi Maxime,

The system may not even qualify as a "pressure system". I'll determine the stored energy and update you. If it is deemed a PS I estimate 1-1.5 weeks to complete all the paperwork. Maybe longer if I cannot find an inspector and/or DA to sign off the technical review form in a timely manner.

Even if the system is deemed to not be a pressure system, an analysis per "Flammable Gas for Physics Experiments" supplement and an OSP are still required.

George,

Your P&ID only shows one box to represent the FT(will change to MVT). Shouldn't it be two boxes, the first is the FT supply box, second would be the FT?

Is the exhaust line shown one that is currently available or does it represent the one that is being installed for the MVT and FT exhaust?

Orifices and relief valves will most likely be required. If you need help sizing these, I can help you even if its not a PS.

I will need more system parameters to determine if the mechanical and chemical stored energy is below 1,000 ft-lb. What is the ID and total length of the 1/4 tubing? The two 1/4 in lines should combine to 1/2 in since its a long run down to the MVT supply box. What is the ID and total length of this line?

As a reminder. Anyone proficient in performing the stored energy calcs and meeting applicable requirements of the PVSSS may make the determination whether or not a system is considered a "pressure system", it doesn't require a DA.

Matt

----- Original Message -----
From: "mdefurne" <mdefurne at jlab.org>
To: dsg-mvt at jlab.org, "Bob Miller" <rmiller at jlab.org>, "Matthew Marchlik" <marchlik at jlab.org>, "George Jacobs" <jacobsg at jlab.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 11:25:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Dsg-mvt] Mixing system

Hi George, Hi Bob, Hi Matt,

1) Can you give an estimate of how much time it takes to do the Pressure 
system requirements?

2) Do we have all components in the house? If not, do we have to include 
a 6-week delivery time for the components? How much would it cost?

3) Bob, can you send me the latest schedule you have for the 
installation of MVT in the Hall? If the mixing system cannot be ready 
for October 15th, can you give me a date on which you are absolutely 
sure it will be ready to be used? November 1st?

I apologize for the many questions. But I want to be sure it is worth 
spending time and money on this premix system.

Thank you for you replies,
Have a good day,

Maxime

Le 11/09/2017 à 12:48, George Jacobs a écrit :
> Hi Maxime,
>
> Pre-mix supply system assembly can happen in 1-3 days after all 
> pressure systems requirements have been completed, as long as all 
> components are in house.
>
> It's the pressure system requirements that require a long lead time. 
> More time is also required if we need to order anything such as 
> orifices or relief valves that have lead times.
>
> George
>
> On 9/10/2017 10:38 PM, mdefurne wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> If this is the most "convenient" back-up system, then I would say go 
>> for it. Nevertheless mixing system must be the priority. If it can be 
>> ready by the time we move the MVT in the Hall, then let's forget 
>> about this pre-mix gas supply.
>>
>> I do not know the time scale. George, how long do you need to have 
>> this pre-mix system ready? Matt, how long to you need to approve this 
>> system if we need it? If you tell me X days, then let's check the 
>> mixing system status X days before the MVT installation. If we think 
>> the mixing system will be ready, then there will be no need to spend 
>> time on the premix supply in the Hall.
>>
>> Apparently premix bottles will not be ordered anymore. But we will 
>> keep 2-3 of them in case the mixing system is not ready (one bottle 
>> lasts 6 days if no leak between the detector and the bottle).
>>
>> Have a good day,
>>
>> Maxime
>>
>>
>> Le 08/09/2017 à 13:35, George Jacobs a écrit :
>>> There was a plan earlier this year to test the FT with pre-mix, so I 
>>> produced the attached diagram for testing the FT with pre-mix in the 
>>> hall at that time. This setup uses the pre-existing lines that run 
>>> from the target gas pad to the downstream end of the space frame. 
>>> Replacing the FT chassis in the diagram with the MVT chassis is all 
>>> that is required to make it the MVT pre-mix gas supply. This setup 
>>> is quite similar to the one in EEL rm 124, but still requires a DA.
>>>
>>> George
>>>
>>> On 9/8/2017 12:14 PM, mdefurne wrote:
>>>> Hi Marc,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for the update. Before inserting the MVT in the solenoid, 
>>>> we will have to check that everything has been plugged back 
>>>> properly. To do so, we will need gas.
>>>>
>>>> A back-up plan will be to have the gas line ready and plug a premix 
>>>> bottle on it. What is the procedure to follow to have this back up 
>>>> plan ready for the MVT installation in the Hall? Unfortunately it 
>>>> is necessary to prepare this back-up plan because we won t insert 
>>>> the CVT in the solenoid without checking that everything is OK.
>>>>
>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Maxime
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 08/09/2017 à 10:09, Marc McMullen a écrit :
>>>>> Hi Maxime,
>>>>>
>>>>> Currently the MVT mixing system is being evaluated by the Pressure 
>>>>> Systems authority and a location is being discussed by the fire 
>>>>> safety authority. If the location is moved outdoors, consideration 
>>>>> must be given for the mass flow controllers. The controllers 
>>>>> purchased are not specified to operate at a temperature lower than 
>>>>> 50F.
>>>>>
>>>>> DSG is currently looking into another option for an MFC, while 
>>>>> Hall B is looking into locations and climate control possibilities 
>>>>> for the MFCs.
>>>>>
>>>>> With that said, Amrit and I have discussed the possibility for the 
>>>>> mixing system to be completed by 9/15 (possibly not even 10/15) 
>>>>> and we think it is not likely. George can provide further 
>>>>> confirmation. If it is necessary to run a premix by then, that 
>>>>> option needs to be expedited.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/6/2017 1:41 PM, mdefurne wrote:
>>>>>> Dear George,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Will the mixing system be ready for October 1st? If not when do 
>>>>>> you expect to have it ready?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it is not ready before the 15th, we will absolutely need the 
>>>>>> gas line ready so that we can plug a premix bottle to run tests: 
>>>>>> We will not be able to enter the CVT in the solenoid if we do not 
>>>>>> check the electronics connexion and gas lines. Indeed, once the 
>>>>>> CVT inside the solenoid, the micromegas tiles and disks will not 
>>>>>> be accessible anymore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If there is any administrative paperwork to have a premix bottle 
>>>>>> plugged on the gas line, please let me know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maxime
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Dsg-mvt mailing list
>>>>>> Dsg-mvt at jlab.org
>>>>>> https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-mvt
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> George Jacobs
>>> Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
>>> STE 12
>>> 12000 Jefferson Ave.
>>> Newport News, VA 23606
>>>
>>> (office) 757-269-7115
>>>
>>> (cell)   757-876-0480
>>>
>>> (email)jacobsg at jlab.org
>>>
>>> (website)https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Dsg-mvt mailing list
>>> Dsg-mvt at jlab.org
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>>
>
> -- 
> George Jacobs
> Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
> STE 12
> 12000 Jefferson Ave.
> Newport News, VA 23606
>
> (office) 757-269-7115
>
> (cell)   757-876-0480
>
> (email)jacobsg at jlab.org
>
> (website)https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg
>
>
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