[Dsg-rich] Fwd: Re: TSOP RICH assembly

Suresh Chandra chandra at jlab.org
Tue Feb 28 13:14:31 EST 2017 

All,

I would like to clarify that the proposed use of gantry to "lift" the 
RICH will***not *apply any lifting force to the pivot axle.  If 
necessary we can discuss.

Suresh


On 2/28/2017 9:34 AM, George Jacobs wrote:
> Using the gantry to "lift" the RICH will also apply a lifting force to 
> the pivot axle. The higher the back of the detector is raised, the 
> higher the stress on the RICH attempting to pull the assembly 
> structure out of the floor. This force could damage the detector.
>
> A better plan would be to use a lever hoist located at the current 
> wire rope sheave location.  This would eliminate the stress on the 
> detector.
>
> The wire rope sheave supplied is only rated to 1000kg. This sheave is 
> too small for a 1000kg winch lifting a 1000kg detector.
>
> George
>
> On 2/28/2017 8:45 AM, Marc McMullen wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> Subject: 	Re: TSOP RICH assembly
>> Date: 	Tue, 28 Feb 2017 08:28:43 -0500 (EST)
>> From: 	Rusty Sprouse <sprouse at jlab.org>
>> To: 	Bob Miller <rmiller at jlab.org>
>> CC: 	Marc McMullen <mcmullen at jlab.org>, Suresh Chandra 
>> <chandra at jlab.org>
>>
>>
>>
>> I concur
>> Thanks
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2017, at 7:58 AM, Bob Miller <rmiller at jlab.org 
>> <mailto:rmiller at jlab.org>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Rusty,
>>>
>>> I recommend using the gantry to lift the detector as Suresh 
>>> described below.  I will discuss this with the RICH  engineer when 
>>> he arrives next week.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/27/2017 3:55 PM, Rusty Sprouse wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Here is where I believe we are.  We believe modifying the procedure 
>>>> will simplify the paperwork
>>>>
>>>> I would like to hear back as to your opinion
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>> Subject: 	Re: Fwd: Re: [Dsg-rich] Fwd: Re: Fwd: winch rating for 
>>>> RICH assembly
>>>> Date: 	Mon, 27 Feb 2017 15:42:04 -0500
>>>> From: 	Suresh Chandra <chandra at jlab.org>
>>>> To: 	Rusty Sprouse <sprouse at jlab.org>
>>>> CC: 	Tom <renzo at jlab.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rusty,
>>>>
>>>> Under the current arrangement of lifting, the load in the winch 
>>>> cable keeps on reducing as the detector is lifted.  Bob Miller told 
>>>> me that their group have a gantry crane available in the area.  In 
>>>> absence of availability of calculations, we may resort to the 
>>>> following:
>>>>
>>>> 1)  We hook up the detector to be lifted both to the winch cable & 
>>>> to the gantry crane.  For a good portion of the lift the gantry 
>>>> crane will remain effective to take the load.  After that the load 
>>>> reduces considerably and the winch cable can take over the load.
>>>>
>>>> 2)  The above method can be safely used without performing any load 
>>>> test.
>>>>
>>>> Suresh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/27/2017 1:33 PM, Suresh Chandra wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Rusty,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have looked thru the documents.  I have also talked to Bob 
>>>>> Miller.  Summary is as follows:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1)  In calculations, they have reported weight of detector as 1000 
>>>>> Kg.  Their calculations show the load for the winch of 875 Kg, 
>>>>> which is O.K.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2)  The working load for the winch given in the Winch 
>>>>> manufacturer's papers is 1000 Kg.  Thus winch is O.K.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3)  There are no calculations or details of frame members 
>>>>> provided.  Hence the frame cannot be checked.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4)  Bob Miller told me that he has asked the persons in Italy to 
>>>>> provide calculations on the frame.
>>>>>
>>>>> 5)  If calculations become available we will check them.  If not 
>>>>> we will resort to other solution/s.
>>>>>
>>>>> Suresh
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/27/2017 11:53 AM, Rusty Sprouse wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>>>> Subject: 	Re: [Dsg-rich] Fwd: Re: Fwd: winch rating for RICH 
>>>>>> assembly
>>>>>> Date: 	Mon, 27 Feb 2017 11:52:11 -0500
>>>>>> From: 	Marc McMullen <mcmullen at jlab.org>
>>>>>> To: 	Rusty Sprouse <sprouse at jlab.org>
>>>>>> CC: 	tlemon at jlab.org, Bob Miller <rmiller at jlab.org>, dsg-rich 
>>>>>> <dsg-rich at jlab.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The detector rotates around a pivot, so the winch and pulley only 
>>>>>> pulls on a portion of the detector weight. The calculations have 
>>>>>> the load at 775Kg.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/27/2017 11:27 AM, Rusty Sprouse wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is the weight (load) of what you are trying to lift?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/24/2017 10:38 AM, Marc McMullen wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Rusty,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tyler is referring to TOSP 64632 (Assembly of the RICH 
>>>>>>>> detector) . You returned that one to me pending a 125% load test.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://mis.jlab.org/mis/apps/mis_forms/operational_safety_procedure_form.cfm?entry_id=64632
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Marc
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2017 10:06 AM, Tyler Lemon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bob Miller (emails below in blue) has stated in Email #2 below 
>>>>>>>>> that the winch to be used for RICH rotation during assembly 
>>>>>>>>> "is not an under hook lifting device, so it does not require a 
>>>>>>>>> JLab load test." The winch has been used to assemble the 
>>>>>>>>> structure in Italy (Email #3 from Sandro).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We would like this matter (load testing) to be resolved 
>>>>>>>>> between Rusty Sprouse and Bob Miller as soon as possible. We 
>>>>>>>>> would like to have the TOSP as soon as possible so that we 
>>>>>>>>> have no delay in proceeding with RICH construction when INFN 
>>>>>>>>> collaborators arrive at JLab on March 6, 2017.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>> Tyler
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *EMAIL #1*
>>>>>>>>> *From: "Mirazita Marco" <Marco.Mirazita at lnf.infn.it>*
>>>>>>>>> *To: *"dsg-rich" <dsg-rich at jlab.org>
>>>>>>>>> *Sent: *Friday, February 24, 2017 7:45:31 AM
>>>>>>>>> *Subject: *[Dsg-rich] Fwd: Re: Fwd: winch rating for RICH assembly
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>> as you can see we don't need a new winch and we don't need to 
>>>>>>>>> do any
>>>>>>>>> load test.
>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>> Marco
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *EMAIL #2*
>>>>>>>>> -------- Messaggio originale --------
>>>>>>>>> Oggetto: Re: Fwd: winch rating for RICH assembly
>>>>>>>>> Data: 2017-02-24 13:10
>>>>>>>>> *Mittente: Bob Miller <rmiller at jlab.org>*
>>>>>>>>> Destinatario: Tomassini Sandro <sandro.tomassini at lnf.infn.it>
>>>>>>>>> Cc: Dario Orecchini <dario.orecchini at googlemail.com>, Marco 
>>>>>>>>> Mirazita
>>>>>>>>> <Marco.Mirazita at lnf.infn.it>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Sandro,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is not an under hook lifting device, so it does not 
>>>>>>>>> require a JLab
>>>>>>>>> load test.  If you are comfortable using it, then we do not 
>>>>>>>>> need to do a
>>>>>>>>> load test.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *EMAIL #3*
>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2017 3:32 PM, *Tomassini Sandro* wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>>>>>> yes, the structure was assembled and used to assemble the RICH 
>>>>>>>>> at the
>>>>>>>>> Company that built everything.
>>>>>>>>> Sandro
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> **EMAIL #4**
>>>>>>>>> Il 23/02/2017 21:27,*Bob Miller* ha scritto:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Sandro,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, I think we will need a fixture to load test the structure.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Has this structure been assembled and used already?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> **EMAIL #5**
>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2017 3:22 PM, *Tomassini Sandro* wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>>>>>> unfortunately I do not have any plan and any tool ready.
>>>>>>>>> I envisage that we/you have to build a beam (steel extrusion) to
>>>>>>>>> connect to the pivoting part and with an eye bolt on the other 
>>>>>>>>> side
>>>>>>>>> and in the middle a hole to attach 1250 kg at about the RICH
>>>>>>>>> barycenter. See Sketch below.
>>>>>>>>> I think this is the more realistic way to load correctly the
>>>>>>>>> structure.
>>>>>>>>> I do not have any drawing of the tool I mentioned but we can 
>>>>>>>>> try to
>>>>>>>>> make a fast sketch and you should produce at Jlab.
>>>>>>>>> I do not know if you have a better solution.
>>>>>>>>> If you agree Dario or me can design it and you build it in US.
>>>>>>>>> Let me know
>>>>>>>>> Sandro
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *EMAIL #6*
>>>>>>>>> Il 23/02/2017 18:51, *Bob Miller* ha scritto:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Sandro,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am being asked to load test the RICH assembly structure. Do you
>>>>>>>>> have a plan or any tooling for how to load test this structure? It
>>>>>>>>> looks like we would need some kind of tool to take the place 
>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>> RICH box to apply the load to the structure.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *EMAIL #7*
>>>>>>>>> FROM:
>>>>>>>>> *Tyler Lemon <tlemon at jlab.org>*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> TO:
>>>>>>>>>  Bob Miller <rmiller at jlab.org>, Mirazita Marco
>>>>>>>>> <marco.mirazita at lnf.infn.it>, dsg-rich <dsg-rich at jlab.org>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> CC:
>>>>>>>>> Patrizia Rossi <rossi at jlab.org>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello Bob,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please find attached slides from Marco Mirazita showing 
>>>>>>>>> calculations
>>>>>>>>> for the planned rotation of RICH after the assembly of the 
>>>>>>>>> detector
>>>>>>>>> shell.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The GR1000 winch (image of load specifications also attached), is
>>>>>>>>> rated for 1000 kg. Rusty Sprouse has not approved the load test at
>>>>>>>>> 1,250 kg due to the 1000 kg rating of the GR1000 winch.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> However, it has been calculated that the maximum load exerted 
>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>> winch will be ~775 kg. Please let us know whether the rating 
>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>> GR1000 winch is adequate for the rotation of RICH using the lift
>>>>>>>>> procedure as shown in the slides. If it is not, we will find 
>>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>> solution.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tyler
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Dsg-rich mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Dsg-rich at jlab.org
>>>>>>>>> https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> Marc McMullen
>>>>>>>> Detector Support Group
>>>>>>>> 757-269-7738
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Marc McMullen
>>>>>> Detector Support Group
>>>>>> 757-269-7738
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Bob Miller
>>> Hall B Lead Engineer
>>> Jefferson Lab
>>> 757 269-7867
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Dsg-rich mailing list
>> Dsg-rich at jlab.org
>> https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich
>
> -- 
> George Jacobs
> Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
> STE 12
> 12000 Jefferson Ave.
> Newport News, VA 23606
>
> (office) 757-269-7115
>
> (cell)   757-876-0480
>
> (email)jacobsg at jlab.org
>
> (website)https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mailman.jlab.org/pipermail/dsg-hallb_rich/attachments/20170228/19142ead/attachment-0002.html>

More information about the Dsg-rich mailing list