[Dsg-rich] RICH installation activity

Tue Oct 10 09:41:57 EDT 2017

george, 
all good questions that we need to address. 

as the philosopher (ay) said "one can't pose a question, if there is no answer out there" 
which implies to every question that man asks, there is an answer. 
we may never find that answer, but there is an answer. 

there are also answers out there to question we are unable to pose, that's our our ignorance. 
and that's why we search and research, over and over again; to pose questions; really not to answer them. 
all these questions will be answered in the dsg meeting by the Y&R (the young and the restless). 

youth is amazing isn't? it has answers to everything, including to questions we don't ask or don't want to ask! 
let's chew on that. 

From: "George Jacobs" <jacobsg at jlab.org> 
To: "Amrit Yegneswaran" <yeg at jlab.org>, "Amanda Hoebel" <amandah at jlab.org> 
Cc: dsg-rich at jlab.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 9:06:33 AM 
Subject: Re: [Dsg-rich] RICH installation activity 

Yes, math is fun, but the devil is in the details. 

More questions; 
What size is the N2 outlet on the RICH? Will this limit the flow rate of the purge? 
What will the pressure be in the N2 distribution manifold during this test? Will the pressure be > 15 psi? (Sound Familiar?) 
What differential pressure will result inside the detector volume at 40 slm flow rate? 
Can a single N2 dewar supply gas at 40 slm for extended period of time? The answer is no on this one. 

Good place to start, 
George 

On 10/9/2017 5:25 PM, Amrit Yegneswaran wrote: 

george, 
amanda et.al are right. 
thanks for the prompt response guys, the young and the restless! 

however, i believe, we should follow the ALARA principle. 

we should shoot for less than 3ppm water molecules, this should take ~ 24 hrs. 
3ppm in 5 m^3 is ~4*10^20. 
also,we should over pressure the N2 volume adequately so there is no incoming water molecules, so that it is not subject to ambient pressure changes. 

we'll discuss these matters in the dsg meeting 

From: "Amanda Hoebel" <amandah at jlab.org> 
To: dsg-rich at jlab.org 
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 4:00:29 PM 
Subject: Re: [Dsg-rich] RICH installation activity 

Hi George, 

Tyler, Pablo, and I were looking at the calculation of humidity decrease and found that if the total exchange rate for both RICH channels is 40 slm and the volume of the RICH is 5000 L then, using the exponential decay calculation, the time to go from 50% humidity to 1% humidity is about 8 hours. 

Regards, 
Amanda 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Jacobs" <jacobsg at jlab.org> 
To: "Marco Mirazita" <Marco.Mirazita at lnf.infn.it> , dsg-rich at jlab.org , rich at jlab.org 
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 11:18:32 AM 
Subject: Re: [Dsg-rich] RICH installation activity 

I have some questions and comments concerning how fast you want to "fill" the RICH, 

Questions first; 

#1 What is the time frame you require for purging the RICH volume from initial condition of clean room air, ~ 50% humidity, to your final desired number? 

#2 What is the maximum final H2O concentration for storage and operation? 

#3 What is the N2 volume of the detector? 

Comments; 

N2 gas purge supply details; 
- The N2 purge supply flow is controlled by a mechanical valve rotometer, 0-20 slm 
- Purge flow is monitored by a mass flow transducer, 0-20 slm 
- The N2 purge supply valve panel is a pressure system 

N2 purge supply flow specifications 
Channel 1 maximum flow - 20 slm (1200 liters per hour/28,800 liters per day) 
Channel 2 maximum flow - 20 slm (1200 liters per hour/28,800 liters per day) 

The above maximum flow specifications remain constant with regard to the type or source of the N2 supply. 

Thanks, 
George 

On 10/9/2017 10:19 AM, Marco Mirazita wrote: 

- Nitrogen 
1) Setup the N2 distribution lines inside the RICH. 
2) The dewar is not suitable to fill the RICH quickly (i.e. in few hours). A new system must be used, for example bottles. This should be discussed timely with the DSG. There is the plan to test the N2 system in the RICH for the week of October 16. This test will include installation of the exit panel, rotation of the RICH in vertical position, installation of the frontal panels (possibly using the assembly frame), sealing of the electronic panel region with plastic. It makes sense to do all this assembly work only if we have (or we may have) a way to fill the RICH with N2 in a reasonable time. 

_______________________________________________ 
Dsg-rich mailing list 
Dsg-rich at jlab.org 
https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich 

-- 
George Jacobs 
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF) 
STE 12 
12000 Jefferson Ave. 
Newport News, VA 23606 

(office) 757-269-7115 

(cell) 757-876-0480 

(email) jacobsg at jlab.org (website) https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg 

_______________________________________________ 
Dsg-rich mailing list 
Dsg-rich at jlab.org 
https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich 
_______________________________________________ 
Dsg-rich mailing list 
Dsg-rich at jlab.org 
https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich 

_______________________________________________
Dsg-rich mailing list Dsg-rich at jlab.org https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich 

-- 
George Jacobs
Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
STE 12
12000 Jefferson Ave.
Newport News, VA 23606

(office) 757-269-7115

(cell)   757-876-0480

(email) jacobsg at jlab.org (website) https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mailman.jlab.org/pipermail/dsg-hallb_rich/attachments/20171010/5bd0f89b/attachment-0002.html>