[Dsg-rich] RICH installation activity

Wed Oct 11 09:26:33 EDT 2017

Hi George,
to avoid all the complications that we are facing to use 3D printed 
parts in the gas systems, with Sandro, Dario and Vincenzo we found on 
the McMaster-Carr catologue this manyfold with 3/8" inlet and six 1/4" 
outlets:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.mcmaster.com_-235203K956&d=DwICAg&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=9YtCiIg5kE6YCo5iFAyFiMgzNCONVcBowotEOgGZ4Co&m=L-WodykXYqhQ7CbCfDXDKUyrt1TnOEYQMmUjy0jMYP0&s=YYDXa1LLf6qJnLJND4Ta00ccQRAyU5lu7ctMQSGKoQk&e= 

We also found this
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.mcmaster.com_-236696K61&d=DwICAg&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=9YtCiIg5kE6YCo5iFAyFiMgzNCONVcBowotEOgGZ4Co&m=L-WodykXYqhQ7CbCfDXDKUyrt1TnOEYQMmUjy0jMYP0&s=_f2rv9GCqFfzROQX__NIhqQjc-h4ZiMnIjT_gUw75kI&e= 
that can be used for the exhaust outlet connected to the bubbler. But 
maybe you already have in hand what we need.

So, if there no objections, I suggest to purchase 3 pieces of the 
manyfold (1 spare) and, if necessary, two pieces (1 spare) for the 
exhaust connector we suggested or any other type you think is better 
suited.

Best regards,
Marco

Il 2017-10-10 20:25 Tomassini Sandro ha scritto:
> Dear George,
>  the N2 outlet on the RICH must be >= 1/2".
>  The Nitrogen pressure  in the distribution manifold must be less than
> 15 psi since those parts are 3D printed parts. We do not want to
> repeat the air cooling issue.
> 
>  I think, like you, that math is fun but the devil is in the
> details... this to say that we can do all the theoretical calculation
> but untill we do not do a test the math approximation might be big.
> 
>  So, before drilling any hole in the RICH shell I recommend to do a
> test at 40 slm with the pipe lenght and pipe crossection  that is
> going to be used as inlet and outlet plus the Bubbler, plastic
> manifold and distribution nozzles (the ones 3D printed).
>  If at 40 slm the 15 psi limit is exceeded than we have to use
> something else compliant with the pressure code!
> 
>  We still have time but we need to be fast.
>  I think Dario can help you to organize the experimental setup this
> week.
>  The overpressure in the RICH generated by the bubbler, when completed
> and closed, must be less or egual to 0.5 mbar.
> 
>  The test must be done without the RICH shell.
> 
>  Many thanks for your help and collaboration
> 
>  Sandro
> 
>  Il 10/10/2017 15:06, George Jacobs ha scritto:
> 
>> Yes, math is fun, but the devil is in the details.
>> 
>> More questions;
>> What size is the N2 outlet on the RICH? Will this limit the flow
>> rate of the purge?
>> What will the pressure be in the N2 distribution manifold during
>> this test? Will the pressure be > 15 psi? (Sound Familiar?)
>> What differential pressure will result inside the detector volume
>> at 40 slm flow rate?
>> Can a single N2 dewar supply gas at 40 slm for extended period of
>> time? The answer is no on this one.
>> 
>> Good place to start,
>> George
>> 
>> On 10/9/2017 5:25 PM, Amrit Yegneswaran wrote:
>> 
>>> george,
>>> 
>>> amanda et.al are right.
>>> 
>>> thanks for the prompt response guys, the young and the restless!
>>> 
>>> however, i believe, we should follow the ALARA principle.
>>> 
>>> we should shoot for less than 3ppm water molecules, this should
>>> take ~ 24 hrs.
>>> 
>>> 3ppm in 5 m^3 is ~4*10^20.
>>> 
>>> also,we should over pressure the N2 volume adequately so there is
>>> no incoming water molecules, so that it is not subject to ambient
>>> pressure changes.
>>> 
>>> we'll discuss these matters in the dsg meeting
>>> 
>>> -------------------------
>>> 
>>> FROM: "Amanda Hoebel" <amandah at jlab.org>
>>> TO: dsg-rich at jlab.org
>>> SENT: Monday, October 9, 2017 4:00:29 PM
>>> SUBJECT: Re: [Dsg-rich] RICH installation activity
>>> 
>>> Hi George,
>>> 
>>> Tyler, Pablo, and I were looking at the calculation of humidity
>>> decrease and found that if the total exchange rate for both RICH
>>> channels is 40 slm and the volume of the RICH is 5000 L then,
>>> using the exponential decay calculation, the time to go from 50%
>>> humidity to 1% humidity is about 8 hours.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Amanda
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "George Jacobs" <jacobsg at jlab.org>
>>> To: "Marco Mirazita" <Marco.Mirazita at lnf.infn.it>,
>>> dsg-rich at jlab.org, rich at jlab.org
>>> Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 11:18:32 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Dsg-rich] RICH installation activity
>>> 
>>> I have some questions and comments concerning how fast you want
>>> to "fill" the RICH,
>>> 
>>> Questions first;
>>> 
>>> #1 What is the time frame you require for purging the RICH volume
>>> from initial condition of clean room air, ~ 50% humidity, to your
>>> final desired number?
>>> 
>>> #2 What is the maximum final H2O concentration for storage and
>>> operation?
>>> 
>>> #3 What is the N2 volume of the detector?
>>> 
>>> Comments;
>>> 
>>> N2 gas purge supply details;
>>> - The N2 purge supply flow is controlled by a mechanical valve
>>> rotometer, 0-20 slm
>>> - Purge flow is monitored by a mass flow transducer, 0-20 slm
>>> - The N2 purge supply valve panel is a pressure system
>>> 
>>> N2 purge supply flow specifications
>>> Channel 1 maximum flow - 20 slm (1200 liters per hour/28,800
>>> liters per day)
>>> Channel 2 maximum flow - 20 slm (1200 liters per hour/28,800
>>> liters per day)
>>> 
>>> The above maximum flow specifications remain constant with regard
>>> to the type or source of the N2 supply.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> George
>>> 
>>> On 10/9/2017 10:19 AM, Marco Mirazita wrote:
>>> 
>>> - Nitrogen
>>> 1) Setup the N2 distribution lines inside the RICH.
>>> 2) The dewar is not suitable to fill the RICH quickly (i.e. in
>>> few hours). A new system must be used, for example bottles. This
>>> should be discussed timely with the DSG. There is the plan to test
>>> the N2 system in the RICH for the week of October 16. This test
>>> will include installation of the exit panel, rotation of the RICH
>>> in vertical position, installation of the frontal panels (possibly
>>> using the assembly frame), sealing of the electronic panel region
>>> with plastic. It makes sense to do all this assembly work only if
>>> we have (or we may have) a way to fill the RICH with N2 in a
>>> reasonable time.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Dsg-rich mailing list
>>> Dsg-rich at jlab.org
>>> https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich [1]
>>> 
>>> --
>>> George Jacobs
>>> Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
>>> STE 12
>>> 12000 Jefferson Ave.
>>> Newport News, VA 23606
>>> 
>>> (office) 757-269-7115
>>> 
>>> (cell) 757-876-0480
>>> 
>>> (email) jacobsg at jlab.org (website)
>>> https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg [2]
>>> 
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>> 
>> --
>> George Jacobs
>> Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
>> STE 12
>> 12000 Jefferson Ave.
>> Newport News, VA 23606
>> 
>> (office) 757-269-7115
>> 
>> (cell) 757-876-0480
>> 
>> (email) jacobsg at jlab.org
>> 
>> (website) https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg [2]
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Dsg-rich mailing list
>> Dsg-rich at jlab.org
>> https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich [1]
> 
> --
> -----------------------------------------
> Dr. Eng. Sandro Tomassini
> Istituto Nazionale di Fisica Nucleare
> Laboratori Nazionali di Frascati
> ---Research Division---
> P.O.Box 13 00044 Frascati (RM) Italy
> Tel. office: +39 06 9403 2919/8089
> Fax: +39 06 94032256
> e-mail: sandro.tomassini at lnf.infn.it
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lnf.infn.it_&d=DwICAg&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=9YtCiIg5kE6YCo5iFAyFiMgzNCONVcBowotEOgGZ4Co&m=L-WodykXYqhQ7CbCfDXDKUyrt1TnOEYQMmUjy0jMYP0&s=tJ1CeGBrS1mLAbmwGKfo6cdemwtseDt8-XF8zMf-G6c&e=  [3]
> -----------------------------------------
> --
> 
> 
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