[Moller_pion_bg] MOLLER: Pion Background Detector Meeting (NEW TIME) Tuesday Sept. 26 at 4 pm EST
Neven Simicevic
neven at phys.latech.edu
Tue Sep 26 15:57:05 EDT 2017
This may be. This is what I said one needs to check out and as you said
put it in if it is absent.
Neven
On 09/26/2017 02:49 PM, Krishna Kumar wrote:
> In fact my guess is the Moller scattering is absent. Note that the
> electron energy does not start to rise again at lower energies as one
> would expect if Moller scattering was included. I am sure FLUKA has
> state of the art cross-sections for complicated hadronic processes.
> Likely simple things like elastic electron-electron scattering and
> electron proton scattering is not in their radar because this not
> traditionally what it is used for.
> KK
>
>
>> On Sep 26, 2017, at 3:45 PM, Krishna Kumar
>> <krishna.kumar at stonybrook.edu <mailto:krishna.kumar at stonybrook.edu>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Neven. I am very skeptical that FLUKA will get the cross-sections
>> even for MOLLER scattering right. I personally feel if is safer if
>> you use our own generators for each process and use GEANT or FLUKA to
>> look at punchthroughs and general acceptance through a realistic
>> apparatus. This will save the CPU time you are talking about. The
>> MOLLER and ep cross sections as a function of angle does not look
>> right to me. In linear scale you have no rate beyond 0.4 degrees.
>> This is simply not correct.
>> KK
>>
>>> On Sep 26, 2017, at 3:28 PM, Neven Simicevic <neven at phys.latech.edu
>>> <mailto:neven at phys.latech.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi KK,
>>>
>>> Those are raw data out of the latest FLUKA and out of one trial run.
>>> I assume that FLUKA has state of the art cross sections in it, but,
>>> to be confident in the results, one needs to check if the results
>>> agree with existing experimental data and GEANT.
>>> This requires higher statistic to separate the results into
>>> different channels.
>>> Acceptance in the graphs is slightly larger than 5 to 17 mrad just
>>> to see beyond the limits.
>>> The gap is a result of the fact that the cross section is linear in
>>> solid angle or cos(theta), and since I plotted equidistant binning
>>> in cos(theta) as non-equidistant binning in theta one binning was
>>> skipped.
>>> So it is just a way it was plotted not that there is a gap in physics.
>>> 0.15% is what we use to estimate the ratio in rates between pions
>>> and electrons and, I guess, in the way you defined.
>>>
>>> The idea of this exercise is to speed up the simulation by dividing
>>> it into stages where the output of one stage becomes the input into
>>> the other.
>>>
>>> For example, the spectral distribution of the particles coming out
>>> of the target can be the input into simulating the background due to
>>> the beam dump. This will speed up the simulation by orders of
>>> magnitude.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Neven
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 09/26/2017 12:16 PM, Krishna Kumar wrote:
>>>> HI, I won’t be able to call into the meeting. What generator are
>>>> you using? Also our acceptance is 5 to 17 mrad or so. I don’t
>>>> understand why you have no electrons between 0.4 and 0.5 degrees.
>>>> The 0.15% estimate is for pions generated in the target in the
>>>> target (prompt electro or photo production) that go through the
>>>> primary acceptance collimator, compared to the Moller rate through
>>>> that collimator. No punch throughs have ever been properly
>>>> simulated (yet). Perhaps I am mistaken about what you call 0.15%.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers, KK
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 26, 2017, at 1:04 PM, Neven Simicevic
>>>>> <neven at phys.latech.edu <mailto:neven at phys.latech.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not know if we will have time to discuss it today, but I am
>>>>> looking into pion/electron rates.
>>>>> In all our simulations we assume that the pion rate is ~0.15 percent.
>>>>> Attached is my first preliminary simulation of pion/electron rates
>>>>> as a function of the particles angle and energy.
>>>>> I have to carefully recheck this numbers, change binning a
>>>>> little, and increase statistics.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Neven
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 09/25/2017 08:03 AM, Kurtis Bartlett wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As a reminder we will have our next meeting tomorrow afternoon at
>>>>>> our new meeting time of 4 pm EST.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kurtis
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Kurtis Bartlett
>>>>>> <kdbartlett at email.wm.edu <mailto:kdbartlett at email.wm.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As a reminder to the members of the MOLLER Pion
>>>>>> Background/Detector working group, there will be a meeting
>>>>>> *next week* on Tuesday Sept. 26 at 4 pm EST.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The agenda for the meeting can be found on the MOLLER wiki:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://hallaweb.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/MOLLER_Pion_Background_Meeting_Tuesday%2C_September_26%2C_2017_4:00pm_EST
>>>>>> <https://hallaweb.jlab.org/wiki/index.php/MOLLER_Pion_Background_Meeting_Tuesday%2C_September_26%2C_2017_4:00pm_EST>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Feel free to add any other points of business to the wiki.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is the Bluejeans call information:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> URL: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__bluejeans.com_624029893&d=DwIDaQ&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=LyAb7BfuulVB-k0tbOhHTpVqHlxbnL-in83zvJV-2vY&m=ZcK4kn1-TrF56_tCNfheD22X5r64JN_aOqRsPnOae-U&s=vrutLEzVQ1KxfSKfz3jD5Xh661OVeKvuKodnM7dn_u8&e=
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__bluejeans.com_624029893&d=DwMFaQ&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=LyAb7BfuulVB-k0tbOhHTpVqHlxbnL-in83zvJV-2vY&m=RFql1jSTzLYoUDLMOtDWj1KkVbQmux44064kA9leRyI&s=DMRTgckGgIUul00m3zSVpKaBCn2stcSPjNNftpslmhE&e=>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phone Number: 1-888-240-2560 <tel:1-888-240-2560>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meeting ID: 624029893
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope to see everyone there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kurtis
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kurtis D. Bartlett
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PhD. Research Candidate
>>>>>> College of William and Mary Physics Department
>>>>>> kdbartlett at email.wm.edu <mailto:kdbartlett at email.wm.edu>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kurtis D. Bartlett
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PhD. Research Candidate
>>>>>> College of William and Mary Physics Department
>>>>>> kdbartlett at email.wm.edu <mailto:kdbartlett at email.wm.edu>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Moller_pion_bg mailing list
>>>>>> Moller_pion_bg at jlab.org
>>>>>> https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/moller_pion_bg
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Neven Simicevic
>>>>> Wayne and Juanita Spinks Professor of Physics
>>>>> College of Engineering and Science
>>>>>
>>>>> Louisiana Tech University
>>>>> 600 Dan Reneau Dr., Engineering Annex
>>>>> P.O. Box 10348 T.S.
>>>>> Ruston, LA 71272
>>>>> Tel: 318-257-3591
>>>>>
>>>>> <pion_electron_rates.pdf>_______________________________________________
>>>>> Moller_pion_bg mailing list
>>>>> Moller_pion_bg at jlab.org <mailto:Moller_pion_bg at jlab.org>
>>>>> https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/moller_pion_bg
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Neven Simicevic
>>> Wayne and Juanita Spinks Professor of Physics
>>> College of Engineering and Science
>>>
>>> Louisiana Tech University
>>> 600 Dan Reneau Dr., Engineering Annex
>>> P.O. Box 10348 T.S.
>>> Ruston, LA 71272
>>> Tel: 318-257-3591
>>>
>>
>
--
Neven Simicevic
Wayne and Juanita Spinks Professor of Physics
College of Engineering and Science
Louisiana Tech University
600 Dan Reneau Dr., Engineering Annex
P.O. Box 10348 T.S.
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: 318-257-3591
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