[Dsg-rich] Fwd: Re: TOSP RICH assembly
Amrit Yegneswaran
yeg at jlab.org
Tue Feb 28 10:52:17 EST 2017
hi marc,
i concur.
george
if the sheave is of concern, why don't we buy one from grainger, 5RRT5 rated at 6000 lbs (2727 Kg) for $ 40.
also, my understanding of using the gantry was that it was for safety (not for lifting), the winch rating is 25% more than the full detector load - adequate.
i thought the gantry would have a slight slack and follow the lift plan.
the ratchet hoist idea is good, but these decisions, as marc points out, are between bob, rusty, and infn group.
amrit
From: "Marc Mcmullen" <mcmullen at jlab.org>
To: "George Jacobs" <jacobsg at jlab.org>, "dsg-rich" <dsg-rich at jlab.org>, "Bob Miller" <rmiller at jlab.org>, msprouse at jlab.org, "Suresh Chandra" <chandra at jlab.org>, "Doug Tilles" <tilles at jlab.org>, "Denny Insley" <DINSLEY at jlab.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 10:20:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Dsg-rich] Fwd: Re: TOSP RICH assembly
Hi All,
With regards to the matter of the mechanical means of articulating the detector on the assembly structure pivot, a decision of the method will be determined by a collaboration of the INFN group, Hall B (Bob Miller), and Facilities Management (Rusty Sprouse and Suresh Chandra). The DSG will wait for specific details containing the specific lifting method.
As for the TOSP, I will modify the current documents to reflect input from the aforementioned groups. DSG will also consult with INFN about changes to the procedure.
Thanks
Marc
On 2/28/2017 9:34 AM, George Jacobs wrote:
Using the gantry to "lift" the RICH will also apply a lifting force to the pivot axle. The higher the back of the detector is raised, the higher the stress on the RICH attempting to pull the assembly structure out of the floor. This force could damage the detector.
A better plan would be to use a lever hoist located at the current wire rope sheave location. This would eliminate the stress on the detector.
The wire rope sheave supplied is only rated to 1000kg. This sheave is too small for a 1000kg winch lifting a 1000kg detector.
George
On 2/28/2017 8:45 AM, Marc McMullen wrote:
BQ_BEGIN
-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: TSOP RICH assembly
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 08:28:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Rusty Sprouse <sprouse at jlab.org>
To: Bob Miller <rmiller at jlab.org>
CC: Marc McMullen <mcmullen at jlab.org> , Suresh Chandra <chandra at jlab.org>
I concur
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 28, 2017, at 7:58 AM, Bob Miller < rmiller at jlab.org > wrote:
BQ_BEGIN
Hi Rusty,
I recommend using the gantry to lift the detector as Suresh described below. I will discuss this with the RICH engineer when he arrives next week.
Regards,
Bob
On 2/27/2017 3:55 PM, Rusty Sprouse wrote:
BQ_BEGIN
Here is where I believe we are. We believe modifying the procedure will simplify the paperwork
I would like to hear back as to your opinion
thanks
-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [Dsg-rich] Fwd: Re: Fwd: winch rating for RICH assembly
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 15:42:04 -0500
From: Suresh Chandra <chandra at jlab.org>
To: Rusty Sprouse <sprouse at jlab.org>
CC: Tom <renzo at jlab.org>
Rusty,
Under the current arrangement of lifting, the load in the winch cable keeps on reducing as the detector is lifted. Bob Miller told me that their group have a gantry crane available in the area. In absence of availability of calculations, we may resort to the following:
1) We hook up the detector to be lifted both to the winch cable & to the gantry crane. For a good portion of the lift the gantry crane will remain effective to take the load. After that the load reduces considerably and the winch cable can take over the load.
2) The above method can be safely used without performing any load test.
Suresh
On 2/27/2017 1:33 PM, Suresh Chandra wrote:
BQ_BEGIN
Rusty,
I have looked thru the documents. I have also talked to Bob Miller. Summary is as follows:
1) In calculations, they have reported weight of detector as 1000 Kg. Their calculations show the load for the winch of 875 Kg, which is O.K.
2) The working load for the winch given in the Winch manufacturer's papers is 1000 Kg. Thus winch is O.K.
3) There are no calculations or details of frame members provided. Hence the frame cannot be checked.
4) Bob Miller told me that he has asked the persons in Italy to provide calculations on the frame.
5) If calculations become available we will check them. If not we will resort to other solution/s.
Suresh
On 2/27/2017 11:53 AM, Rusty Sprouse wrote:
BQ_BEGIN
-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [Dsg-rich] Fwd: Re: Fwd: winch rating for RICH assembly
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 11:52:11 -0500
From: Marc McMullen <mcmullen at jlab.org>
To: Rusty Sprouse <sprouse at jlab.org>
CC: tlemon at jlab.org , Bob Miller <rmiller at jlab.org> , dsg-rich <dsg-rich at jlab.org>
The detector rotates around a pivot, so the winch and pulley only pulls on a portion of the detector weight. The calculations have the load at 775Kg.
On 2/27/2017 11:27 AM, Rusty Sprouse wrote:
BQ_BEGIN
What is the weight (load) of what you are trying to lift?
On 2/24/2017 10:38 AM, Marc McMullen wrote:
BQ_BEGIN
Hi Rusty,
Tyler is referring to TOSP 64632 (Assembly of the RICH detector) . You returned that one to me pending a 125% load test.
https://mis.jlab.org/mis/apps/mis_forms/operational_safety_procedure_form.cfm?entry_id=64632
Thanks
Marc
On 2/24/2017 10:06 AM, Tyler Lemon wrote:
BQ_BEGIN
Hello,
Bob Miller (emails below in blue) has stated in Email #2 below that the winch to be used for RICH rotation during assembly " is not an under hook lifting device, so it does not require a JLab load test." The winch has been used to assemble the structure in Italy (Email #3 from Sandro).
We would like this matter (load testing) to be resolved between Rusty Sprouse and Bob Miller as soon as possible. We would like to have the TOSP as soon as possible so that we have no delay in proceeding with RICH construction when INFN collaborators arrive at JLab on March 6, 2017 .
Best regards,
Tyler
EMAIL #1
From: "Mirazita Marco" <Marco.Mirazita at lnf.infn.it>
To: "dsg-rich" <dsg-rich at jlab.org>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 7:45:31 AM
Subject: [Dsg-rich] Fwd: Re: Fwd: winch rating for RICH assembly
Hi all,
as you can see we don't need a new winch and we don't need to do any
load test.
Best regards,
Marco
EMAIL #2
-------- Messaggio originale --------
Oggetto: Re: Fwd: winch rating for RICH assembly
Data: 2017-02-24 13:10
Mittente: Bob Miller <rmiller at jlab.org>
Destinatario: Tomassini Sandro <sandro.tomassini at lnf.infn.it>
Cc: Dario Orecchini <dario.orecchini at googlemail.com> , Marco Mirazita
<Marco.Mirazita at lnf.infn.it>
Hi Sandro,
This is not an under hook lifting device, so it does not require a JLab
load test. If you are comfortable using it, then we do not need to do a
load test.
Regards,
Bob
EMAIL #3
On 2/23/2017 3:32 PM, Tomassini Sandro wrote:
Hi Bob,
yes, the structure was assembled and used to assemble the RICH at the
Company that built everything.
Sandro
EMAIL #4
Il 23/02/2017 21:27, Bob Miller ha scritto:
Hi Sandro,
Yes, I think we will need a fixture to load test the structure.
Has this structure been assembled and used already?
Thanks,
Bob
EMAIL #5
On 2/23/2017 3:22 PM, Tomassini Sandro wrote:
Hi Bob,
unfortunately I do not have any plan and any tool ready.
I envisage that we/you have to build a beam (steel extrusion) to
connect to the pivoting part and with an eye bolt on the other side
and in the middle a hole to attach 1250 kg at about the RICH
barycenter. See Sketch below.
I think this is the more realistic way to load correctly the
structure.
I do not have any drawing of the tool I mentioned but we can try to
make a fast sketch and you should produce at Jlab.
I do not know if you have a better solution.
If you agree Dario or me can design it and you build it in US.
Let me know
Sandro
EMAIL #6
Il 23/02/2017 18:51, Bob Miller ha scritto:
Hi Sandro,
I am being asked to load test the RICH assembly structure. Do you
have a plan or any tooling for how to load test this structure? It
looks like we would need some kind of tool to take the place of the
RICH box to apply the load to the structure.
Regards,
Bob
EMAIL #7
FROM:
Tyler Lemon <tlemon at jlab.org>
TO:
Bob Miller <rmiller at jlab.org> , Mirazita Marco
<marco.mirazita at lnf.infn.it> , dsg-rich <dsg-rich at jlab.org>
CC:
Patrizia Rossi <rossi at jlab.org>
Hello Bob,
Please find attached slides from Marco Mirazita showing calculations
for the planned rotation of RICH after the assembly of the detector
shell.
The GR1000 winch (image of load specifications also attached), is
rated for 1000 kg. Rusty Sprouse has not approved the load test at
1,250 kg due to the 1000 kg rating of the GR1000 winch.
However, it has been calculated that the maximum load exerted on the
winch will be ~775 kg. Please let us know whether the rating of the
GR1000 winch is adequate for the rotation of RICH using the lift
procedure as shown in the slides. If it is not, we will find another
solution.
Best regards,
Tyler
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Detector Support Group
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757 269-7867
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STE 12
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(office) 757-269-7115
(cell) 757-876-0480
(email) jacobsg at jlab.org (website) https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg
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Detector Support Group
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