[Dsg-rich] TOSP RICH assembly
Patrizia Rossi
rossi at jlab.org
Tue Feb 28 10:53:31 EST 2017
Dear All,
I am totally confused, and my Italian colleagues as well, with the thousands of e-mails that have been exchanged so far concerning the documentation/authorizations/calculations needed for the RICH assembly.
Bob Miller also asked calculations about the structure that have been made some time ago and discussed in several meetings.
The Italian technicians/engineers will arrive next Monday March 6 to start the RICH assembly.
May you confirm that by that time (i.e. within 3 days) we have the TOSP signed so they can start to work from the day 1 they are at Jlab?
Thanks
patrizia
---------------------------------------------------
# Patrizia Rossi
# Jefferson Lab
# 12000 Jefferson Avenue
# Suite 5
# Newport News VA 23606 (USA)
# e-mail: rossi at jlab.org
# phone: +1 (757) 269 7740
# fax: + 1 (757) 269 5800
# cell: +1 (757) 528 7606
> On 28/feb/2017, at 10:20, Marc McMullen <mcmullen at jlab.org> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> With regards to the matter of the mechanical means of articulating the detector on the assembly structure pivot, a decision of the method will be determined by a collaboration of the INFN group, Hall B (Bob Miller), and Facilities Management (Rusty Sprouse and Suresh Chandra). The DSG will wait for specific details containing the specific lifting method.
>
> As for the TOSP, I will modify the current documents to reflect input from the aforementioned groups. DSG will also consult with INFN about changes to the procedure.
> Thanks
> Marc
> On 2/28/2017 9:34 AM, George Jacobs wrote:
>> Using the gantry to "lift" the RICH will also apply a lifting force to the pivot axle. The higher the back of the detector is raised, the higher the stress on the RICH attempting to pull the assembly structure out of the floor. This force could damage the detector.
>>
>> A better plan would be to use a lever hoist located at the current wire rope sheave location. This would eliminate the stress on the detector.
>>
>> The wire rope sheave supplied is only rated to 1000kg. This sheave is too small for a 1000kg winch lifting a 1000kg detector.
>>
>> George
>>
>> On 2/28/2017 8:45 AM, Marc McMullen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: TSOP RICH assembly
>>> Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 08:28:43 -0500 (EST)
>>> From: Rusty Sprouse <sprouse at jlab.org> <mailto:sprouse at jlab.org>
>>> To: Bob Miller <rmiller at jlab.org> <mailto:rmiller at jlab.org>
>>> CC: Marc McMullen <mcmullen at jlab.org> <mailto:mcmullen at jlab.org>, Suresh Chandra <chandra at jlab.org> <mailto:chandra at jlab.org>
>>>
>>> I concur
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Feb 28, 2017, at 7:58 AM, Bob Miller <rmiller at jlab.org <mailto:rmiller at jlab.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Rusty,
>>>>
>>>> I recommend using the gantry to lift the detector as Suresh described below. I will discuss this with the RICH engineer when he arrives next week.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>> On 2/27/2017 3:55 PM, Rusty Sprouse wrote:
>>>>> Here is where I believe we are. We believe modifying the procedure will simplify the paperwork
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to hear back as to your opinion
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>>> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [Dsg-rich] Fwd: Re: Fwd: winch rating for RICH assembly
>>>>> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 15:42:04 -0500
>>>>> From: Suresh Chandra <chandra at jlab.org> <mailto:chandra at jlab.org>
>>>>> To: Rusty Sprouse <sprouse at jlab.org> <mailto:sprouse at jlab.org>
>>>>> CC: Tom <renzo at jlab.org> <mailto:renzo at jlab.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rusty,
>>>>>
>>>>> Under the current arrangement of lifting, the load in the winch cable keeps on reducing as the detector is lifted. Bob Miller told me that their group have a gantry crane available in the area. In absence of availability of calculations, we may resort to the following:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) We hook up the detector to be lifted both to the winch cable & to the gantry crane. For a good portion of the lift the gantry crane will remain effective to take the load. After that the load reduces considerably and the winch cable can take over the load.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) The above method can be safely used without performing any load test.
>>>>>
>>>>> Suresh
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/27/2017 1:33 PM, Suresh Chandra wrote:
>>>>>> Rusty,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have looked thru the documents. I have also talked to Bob Miller. Summary is as follows:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) In calculations, they have reported weight of detector as 1000 Kg. Their calculations show the load for the winch of 875 Kg, which is O.K.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) The working load for the winch given in the Winch manufacturer's papers is 1000 Kg. Thus winch is O.K.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) There are no calculations or details of frame members provided. Hence the frame cannot be checked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4) Bob Miller told me that he has asked the persons in Italy to provide calculations on the frame.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5) If calculations become available we will check them. If not we will resort to other solution/s.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Suresh
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/27/2017 11:53 AM, Rusty Sprouse wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Dsg-rich] Fwd: Re: Fwd: winch rating for RICH assembly
>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 11:52:11 -0500
>>>>>>> From: Marc McMullen <mcmullen at jlab.org> <mailto:mcmullen at jlab.org>
>>>>>>> To: Rusty Sprouse <sprouse at jlab.org> <mailto:sprouse at jlab.org>
>>>>>>> CC: tlemon at jlab.org <mailto:tlemon at jlab.org>, Bob Miller <rmiller at jlab.org> <mailto:rmiller at jlab.org>, dsg-rich <dsg-rich at jlab.org> <mailto:dsg-rich at jlab.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The detector rotates around a pivot, so the winch and pulley only pulls on a portion of the detector weight. The calculations have the load at 775Kg.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/27/2017 11:27 AM, Rusty Sprouse wrote:
>>>>>>>> What is the weight (load) of what you are trying to lift?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2017 10:38 AM, Marc McMullen wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Rusty,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tyler is referring to TOSP 64632 (Assembly of the RICH detector) . You returned that one to me pending a 125% load test.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://mis.jlab.org/mis/apps/mis_forms/operational_safety_procedure_form.cfm?entry_id=64632 <https://mis.jlab.org/mis/apps/mis_forms/operational_safety_procedure_form.cfm?entry_id=64632>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Marc
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2017 10:06 AM, Tyler Lemon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bob Miller (emails below in blue) has stated in Email #2 below that the winch to be used for RICH rotation during assembly "is not an under hook lifting device, so it does not require a JLab load test." The winch has been used to assemble the structure in Italy (Email #3 from Sandro).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We would like this matter (load testing) to be resolved between Rusty Sprouse and Bob Miller as soon as possible. We would like to have the TOSP as soon as possible so that we have no delay in proceeding with RICH construction when INFN collaborators arrive at JLab on March 6, 2017.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Tyler
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL #1
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Mirazita Marco" <Marco.Mirazita at lnf.infn.it> <mailto:Marco.Mirazita at lnf.infn.it>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "dsg-rich" <dsg-rich at jlab.org> <mailto:dsg-rich at jlab.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 7:45:31 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Dsg-rich] Fwd: Re: Fwd: winch rating for RICH assembly
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>> as you can see we don't need a new winch and we don't need to do any
>>>>>>>>>> load test.
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Marco
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL #2
>>>>>>>>>> -------- Messaggio originale --------
>>>>>>>>>> Oggetto: Re: Fwd: winch rating for RICH assembly
>>>>>>>>>> Data: 2017-02-24 13:10
>>>>>>>>>> Mittente: Bob Miller <rmiller at jlab.org> <mailto:rmiller at jlab.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Destinatario: Tomassini Sandro <sandro.tomassini at lnf.infn.it> <mailto:sandro.tomassini at lnf.infn.it>
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Dario Orecchini <dario.orecchini at googlemail.com> <mailto:dario.orecchini at googlemail.com>, Marco Mirazita
>>>>>>>>>> <Marco.Mirazita at lnf.infn.it> <mailto:Marco.Mirazita at lnf.infn.it>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Sandro,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is not an under hook lifting device, so it does not require a JLab
>>>>>>>>>> load test. If you are comfortable using it, then we do not need to do a
>>>>>>>>>> load test.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL #3
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2017 3:32 PM, Tomassini Sandro wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>>>>>>> yes, the structure was assembled and used to assemble the RICH at the
>>>>>>>>>> Company that built everything.
>>>>>>>>>> Sandro
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL #4
>>>>>>>>>> Il 23/02/2017 21:27, Bob Miller ha scritto:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Sandro,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I think we will need a fixture to load test the structure.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Has this structure been assembled and used already?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL #5
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2017 3:22 PM, Tomassini Sandro wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>>>>>>> unfortunately I do not have any plan and any tool ready.
>>>>>>>>>> I envisage that we/you have to build a beam (steel extrusion) to
>>>>>>>>>> connect to the pivoting part and with an eye bolt on the other side
>>>>>>>>>> and in the middle a hole to attach 1250 kg at about the RICH
>>>>>>>>>> barycenter. See Sketch below.
>>>>>>>>>> I think this is the more realistic way to load correctly the
>>>>>>>>>> structure.
>>>>>>>>>> I do not have any drawing of the tool I mentioned but we can try to
>>>>>>>>>> make a fast sketch and you should produce at Jlab.
>>>>>>>>>> I do not know if you have a better solution.
>>>>>>>>>> If you agree Dario or me can design it and you build it in US.
>>>>>>>>>> Let me know
>>>>>>>>>> Sandro
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL #6
>>>>>>>>>> Il 23/02/2017 18:51, Bob Miller ha scritto:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Sandro,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am being asked to load test the RICH assembly structure. Do you
>>>>>>>>>> have a plan or any tooling for how to load test this structure? It
>>>>>>>>>> looks like we would need some kind of tool to take the place of the
>>>>>>>>>> RICH box to apply the load to the structure.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL #7
>>>>>>>>>> FROM:
>>>>>>>>>> Tyler Lemon <tlemon at jlab.org> <mailto:tlemon at jlab.org>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> TO:
>>>>>>>>>> Bob Miller <rmiller at jlab.org> <mailto:rmiller at jlab.org>, Mirazita Marco
>>>>>>>>>> <marco.mirazita at lnf.infn.it> <mailto:marco.mirazita at lnf.infn.it>, dsg-rich <dsg-rich at jlab.org> <mailto:dsg-rich at jlab.org>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> CC:
>>>>>>>>>> Patrizia Rossi <rossi at jlab.org> <mailto:rossi at jlab.org>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hello Bob,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please find attached slides from Marco Mirazita showing calculations
>>>>>>>>>> for the planned rotation of RICH after the assembly of the detector
>>>>>>>>>> shell.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The GR1000 winch (image of load specifications also attached), is
>>>>>>>>>> rated for 1000 kg. Rusty Sprouse has not approved the load test at
>>>>>>>>>> 1,250 kg due to the 1000 kg rating of the GR1000 winch.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> However, it has been calculated that the maximum load exerted on the
>>>>>>>>>> winch will be ~775 kg. Please let us know whether the rating of the
>>>>>>>>>> GR1000 winch is adequate for the rotation of RICH using the lift
>>>>>>>>>> procedure as shown in the slides. If it is not, we will find another
>>>>>>>>>> solution.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tyler
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Dsg-rich mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Dsg-rich at jlab.org <mailto:Dsg-rich at jlab.org>
>>>>>>>>>> https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich <https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Marc McMullen
>>>>>>>>> Detector Support Group
>>>>>>>>> 757-269-7738
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Marc McMullen
>>>>>>> Detector Support Group
>>>>>>> 757-269-7738
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Bob Miller
>>>> Hall B Lead Engineer
>>>> Jefferson Lab
>>>> 757 269-7867
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Dsg-rich mailing list
>>> Dsg-rich at jlab.org <mailto:Dsg-rich at jlab.org>
>>> https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich <https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich>
>>
>> --
>> George Jacobs
>> Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
>> STE 12
>> 12000 Jefferson Ave.
>> Newport News, VA 23606
>>
>> (office) 757-269-7115
>>
>> (cell) 757-876-0480
>>
>> (email) jacobsg at jlab.org <mailto:jacobsg at jlab.org>
>>
>> (website) https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg <https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg>
> --
> Marc McMullen
> Detector Support Group
> 757-269-7738
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