[Dsg-rich] RICH installation activity

Wed Oct 11 10:19:55 EDT 2017

George,
I checked the manifold, we need a sort of through wall connector to 
attach the manifold to the wall. So the scheme might be: proper through 
wall connector, manifold...

Do you have any recommendation or suggestion?

Thanks a lot
Sandro

Il 11/10/2017 16:01, George Jacobs ha scritto:
> The low pressure SS through wall connector looks good. That will allow 
> us to connect whatever line sizes needed. It does require a large 
> diameter hole in the detector wall.
>
> The manifold should be commented on or approved by a DA. Will the 
> manifold be glued directly onto the RICH wall? Do you have a sketch 
> showing how it will be attached to the wall and connected to the n2 
> supply line? This geometry is different than the original design as it 
> has the inlet and outlets at a 90 degree angle.
>
> George
>
> On 10/11/2017 9:26 AM, Marco Mirazita wrote:
>> Hi George,
>> to avoid all the complications that we are facing to use 3D printed 
>> parts in the gas systems, with Sandro, Dario and Vincenzo we found on 
>> the McMaster-Carr catologue this manyfold with 3/8" inlet and six 
>> 1/4" outlets:
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.mcmaster.com_-235203K956&d=DwICAg&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=IDlM-Bxqk-pdsXL50fC8OA&m=r2SXbdgqQFujbIM9nAR9jTak-Rg_TjeifUwGyur_bNI&s=bEp90rm2of8vzzdwfV5i8ztRKYBbHnxqN-j6x5M0egw&e= 
>>
>> We also found this
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.mcmaster.com_-236696K61&d=DwICAg&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=IDlM-Bxqk-pdsXL50fC8OA&m=r2SXbdgqQFujbIM9nAR9jTak-Rg_TjeifUwGyur_bNI&s=Q473YoKGtx_kVpjE4A0Whb-2NbfOzdquYQUIH5PRREU&e= 
>> that can be used for the exhaust outlet connected to the bubbler. But 
>> maybe you already have in hand what we need.
>>
>> So, if there no objections, I suggest to purchase 3 pieces of the 
>> manyfold (1 spare) and, if necessary, two pieces (1 spare) for the 
>> exhaust connector we suggested or any other type you think is better 
>> suited.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Marco
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Il 2017-10-10 20:25 Tomassini Sandro ha scritto:
>>> Dear George,
>>>  the N2 outlet on the RICH must be >= 1/2".
>>>  The Nitrogen pressure  in the distribution manifold must be less than
>>> 15 psi since those parts are 3D printed parts. We do not want to
>>> repeat the air cooling issue.
>>>
>>>  I think, like you, that math is fun but the devil is in the
>>> details... this to say that we can do all the theoretical calculation
>>> but untill we do not do a test the math approximation might be big.
>>>
>>>  So, before drilling any hole in the RICH shell I recommend to do a
>>> test at 40 slm with the pipe lenght and pipe crossection  that is
>>> going to be used as inlet and outlet plus the Bubbler, plastic
>>> manifold and distribution nozzles (the ones 3D printed).
>>>  If at 40 slm the 15 psi limit is exceeded than we have to use
>>> something else compliant with the pressure code!
>>>
>>>  We still have time but we need to be fast.
>>>  I think Dario can help you to organize the experimental setup this
>>> week.
>>>  The overpressure in the RICH generated by the bubbler, when completed
>>> and closed, must be less or egual to 0.5 mbar.
>>>
>>>  The test must be done without the RICH shell.
>>>
>>>  Many thanks for your help and collaboration
>>>
>>>  Sandro
>>>
>>>  Il 10/10/2017 15:06, George Jacobs ha scritto:
>>>
>>>> Yes, math is fun, but the devil is in the details.
>>>>
>>>> More questions;
>>>> What size is the N2 outlet on the RICH? Will this limit the flow
>>>> rate of the purge?
>>>> What will the pressure be in the N2 distribution manifold during
>>>> this test? Will the pressure be > 15 psi? (Sound Familiar?)
>>>> What differential pressure will result inside the detector volume
>>>> at 40 slm flow rate?
>>>> Can a single N2 dewar supply gas at 40 slm for extended period of
>>>> time? The answer is no on this one.
>>>>
>>>> Good place to start,
>>>> George
>>>>
>>>> On 10/9/2017 5:25 PM, Amrit Yegneswaran wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> george,
>>>>>
>>>>> amanda et.al are right.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks for the prompt response guys, the young and the restless!
>>>>>
>>>>> however, i believe, we should follow the ALARA principle.
>>>>>
>>>>> we should shoot for less than 3ppm water molecules, this should
>>>>> take ~ 24 hrs.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3ppm in 5 m^3 is ~4*10^20.
>>>>>
>>>>> also,we should over pressure the N2 volume adequately so there is
>>>>> no incoming water molecules, so that it is not subject to ambient
>>>>> pressure changes.
>>>>>
>>>>> we'll discuss these matters in the dsg meeting
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> FROM: "Amanda Hoebel" <amandah at jlab.org>
>>>>> TO: dsg-rich at jlab.org
>>>>> SENT: Monday, October 9, 2017 4:00:29 PM
>>>>> SUBJECT: Re: [Dsg-rich] RICH installation activity
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi George,
>>>>>
>>>>> Tyler, Pablo, and I were looking at the calculation of humidity
>>>>> decrease and found that if the total exchange rate for both RICH
>>>>> channels is 40 slm and the volume of the RICH is 5000 L then,
>>>>> using the exponential decay calculation, the time to go from 50%
>>>>> humidity to 1% humidity is about 8 hours.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Amanda
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "George Jacobs" <jacobsg at jlab.org>
>>>>> To: "Marco Mirazita" <Marco.Mirazita at lnf.infn.it>,
>>>>> dsg-rich at jlab.org, rich at jlab.org
>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 11:18:32 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Dsg-rich] RICH installation activity
>>>>>
>>>>> I have some questions and comments concerning how fast you want
>>>>> to "fill" the RICH,
>>>>>
>>>>> Questions first;
>>>>>
>>>>> #1 What is the time frame you require for purging the RICH volume
>>>>> from initial condition of clean room air, ~ 50% humidity, to your
>>>>> final desired number?
>>>>>
>>>>> #2 What is the maximum final H2O concentration for storage and
>>>>> operation?
>>>>>
>>>>> #3 What is the N2 volume of the detector?
>>>>>
>>>>> Comments;
>>>>>
>>>>> N2 gas purge supply details;
>>>>> - The N2 purge supply flow is controlled by a mechanical valve
>>>>> rotometer, 0-20 slm
>>>>> - Purge flow is monitored by a mass flow transducer, 0-20 slm
>>>>> - The N2 purge supply valve panel is a pressure system
>>>>>
>>>>> N2 purge supply flow specifications
>>>>> Channel 1 maximum flow - 20 slm (1200 liters per hour/28,800
>>>>> liters per day)
>>>>> Channel 2 maximum flow - 20 slm (1200 liters per hour/28,800
>>>>> liters per day)
>>>>>
>>>>> The above maximum flow specifications remain constant with regard
>>>>> to the type or source of the N2 supply.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> George
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/9/2017 10:19 AM, Marco Mirazita wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Nitrogen
>>>>> 1) Setup the N2 distribution lines inside the RICH.
>>>>> 2) The dewar is not suitable to fill the RICH quickly (i.e. in
>>>>> few hours). A new system must be used, for example bottles. This
>>>>> should be discussed timely with the DSG. There is the plan to test
>>>>> the N2 system in the RICH for the week of October 16. This test
>>>>> will include installation of the exit panel, rotation of the RICH
>>>>> in vertical position, installation of the frontal panels (possibly
>>>>> using the assembly frame), sealing of the electronic panel region
>>>>> with plastic. It makes sense to do all this assembly work only if
>>>>> we have (or we may have) a way to fill the RICH with N2 in a
>>>>> reasonable time.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Dsg-rich mailing list
>>>>> Dsg-rich at jlab.org
>>>>> https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich [1]
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> George Jacobs
>>>>> Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
>>>>> STE 12
>>>>> 12000 Jefferson Ave.
>>>>> Newport News, VA 23606
>>>>>
>>>>> (office) 757-269-7115
>>>>>
>>>>> (cell) 757-876-0480
>>>>>
>>>>> (email) jacobsg at jlab.org (website)
>>>>> https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg [2]
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Dsg-rich mailing list
>>>>> Dsg-rich at jlab.org
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>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Dsg-rich mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Dsg-rich mailing list
>>>>> Dsg-rich at jlab.org
>>>>> https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich [1]
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> George Jacobs
>>>> Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
>>>> STE 12
>>>> 12000 Jefferson Ave.
>>>> Newport News, VA 23606
>>>>
>>>> (office) 757-269-7115
>>>>
>>>> (cell) 757-876-0480
>>>>
>>>> (email) jacobsg at jlab.org
>>>>
>>>> (website) https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg [2]
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Dsg-rich mailing list
>>>> Dsg-rich at jlab.org
>>>> https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich [1]
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> -----------------------------------------
>>> Dr. Eng. Sandro Tomassini
>>> Istituto Nazionale di Fisica Nucleare
>>> Laboratori Nazionali di Frascati
>>> ---Research Division---
>>> P.O.Box 13 00044 Frascati (RM) Italy
>>> Tel. office: +39 06 9403 2919/8089
>>> Fax: +39 06 94032256
>>> e-mail: sandro.tomassini at lnf.infn.it
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lnf.infn.it_&d=DwICAg&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=IDlM-Bxqk-pdsXL50fC8OA&m=r2SXbdgqQFujbIM9nAR9jTak-Rg_TjeifUwGyur_bNI&s=43M8LCVE5R9mKgYHG1FFF6zw1oGVnGi9RVc9URWWmvE&e= 
>>> [3]
>>> -----------------------------------------
>>> -- 
>>>
>>>
>>> Links:
>>> ------
>>> [1] https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/dsg-rich
>>> [2] https://userweb.jlab.org/%7Ejacobsg
>>> [3]
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>>>
>>>
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>
> -- 
> George Jacobs
> Jefferson Lab (TJNAF)
> STE 12
> 12000 Jefferson Ave.
> Newport News, VA 23606
>
> (office) 757-269-7115
>
> (cell)   757-876-0480
>
> (email)jacobsg at jlab.org
>
> (website)https://userweb.jlab.org/~jacobsg

-- 
-----------------------------------------
Dr. Eng. Sandro Tomassini
Istituto Nazionale di Fisica Nucleare
Laboratori Nazionali di Frascati
---Research Division---
P.O.Box 13 00044 Frascati (RM) Italy
Tel. office: +39 06 9403 2919/8089
Fax: +39 06 94032256
e-mail: sandro.tomassini at lnf.infn.it
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lnf.infn.it_&d=DwIDaQ&c=lz9TcOasaINaaC3U7FbMev2lsutwpI4--09aP8Lu18s&r=9YtCiIg5kE6YCo5iFAyFiMgzNCONVcBowotEOgGZ4Co&m=JjNka-ODyPUFqlwGBDtz2zTGiGcjqrj1pVmIGt25J6I&s=zINLsWWMUMwTHfrDVat9CzsovtKL6SRLpUv5Vkb9v0U&e= 
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