[Erd108] [EXTERNAL] Re: call for FY24 R&D proposals and reports

Thu Jul 6 13:12:49 EDT 2023

  Hi All,

  Sorry for coming too late with all this. Also, stupid me lost the link to Overleaf. Can please somebody re-send it to me? But looking into the budget proposals, I'm now really getting puzzled. So, we are not going to repeat the cylindrical uRWell test at Fermilab ever? Or what is the idea now? I understand we cannot ask money for the cylindrical stuff, but for the flat one of course we can! And pretend we bring a ~$30k "in-kind" to this party (the cost of two foils).

  Under these circumstances (and if I was allowed to work on this topic myself) I'd certainly consider to recycle a good fraction of the BiZ enclosure design, adjust it to a flattened pair of cylindrical foils, ask for ~$3k M&S + ~$25k travel money, and pretend that - given the circumstances - we are proposing a low risk, low channel count and already to a large extent existing solution for this endcap, assuming a 6 (or say 8) sector design. Rephrasing what Marcus said yesterday: are we otherwise proposing 180 degree sectors only because we are not interested in building the smaller ones? Anyway, even if the cylindrical foils got damaged, we with Craig still have enough money in our CERN account to ask Rui fix them (or disconnect the faulty segments), without even asking the project for any new money. I don't know. If anything in our proposal was going to be funded, from my perspective it is this part, which is kind of a no-brainer. But then please we need somebody to lead this effort. I personally can only help adjusting the enclosure design, and hopefully when the dust settles, be allowed to go to Fermilab next Spring with you.

  Cheers,
    Alexander.

________________________________
From: Nikolai Smirnov <nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2023 9:27 AM
To: Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org>
Cc: Marcus Hohlmann <hohlmann at fit.edu>; Kiselev, Alexander <ayk at bnl.gov>; Matthew Posik <posik at temple.edu>; erd108 at jlab.org <erd108 at jlab.org>; Woody, Craig <woody at bnl.gov>; Azmoun, Bob <azmoun at bnl.gov>; Tarafdar, Sourav <sourav.tarafdar at vanderbilt.edu>; Huong Nguyen <htn3r.uva at gmail.com>; matt posik <mposik1983 at gmail.com>; Annalisa D'Angelo <annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it>
Subject: Re: call for FY24 R&D proposals and reports

Dear All,
Just to support Alexander's approach I would like to inform you that in my lab there are 4-5 GEM foils (framed, ready to be used) trapezoid shape, size: X - 27.5 x 44.5. Y - 47.5 cm. (active area).
 Needed construction space and test facility are available.
 So, the "mechanical" step can be very close to pre production prototype.
 I am sure that the needed size (and shape) MMG can be prepared in one year. It should be confirmed of course.
Best regards, Nikolai.

On Thu, Jul 6, 2023 at 1:52 AM Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org<mailto:kagnanvo at jlab.org>> wrote:
Hi Alexander,
I see your point, but in that case I would argue that since the design and tooling are already available, we can just request funding for the fabrication of the uRWELL PCB from CERN if you think a full detector could be assembled within a year.
This way, we still get to complete the R&D on the cylindrical in parallel
Best regards
Kondo

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________________________________
From: Marcus Hohlmann <hohlmann at fit.edu<mailto:hohlmann at fit.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2023 11:20:08 PM
To: Kiselev, Alexander <ayk at bnl.gov<mailto:ayk at bnl.gov>>; Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org<mailto:kagnanvo at jlab.org>>; Matthew Posik <posik at temple.edu<mailto:posik at temple.edu>>; erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org> <erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org>>; Woody, Craig <woody at bnl.gov<mailto:woody at bnl.gov>>; Azmoun, Bob <azmoun at bnl.gov<mailto:azmoun at bnl.gov>>; Tarafdar, Sourav <sourav.tarafdar at vanderbilt.edu<mailto:sourav.tarafdar at vanderbilt.edu>>; Huong Nguyen <htn3r.uva at gmail.com<mailto:htn3r.uva at gmail.com>>; Nikolai Smirnov <nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu<mailto:nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu>>; matt posik <mposik1983 at gmail.com<mailto:mposik1983 at gmail.com>>; Annalisa D'Angelo <annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it<mailto:annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: call for FY24 R&D proposals and reports

Hi Alexander,

We are already in the process of testing that medium-size with the cylindrical detector, so I don’t think there is much point to flattening it out and building yet another intermediate-size gas envelope.

Marcus

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Prof. Marcus Hohlmann                           Email: hohlmann at fit.edu<mailto:hohlmann at fit.edu>
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From: Kiselev, Alexander <ayk at bnl.gov<mailto:ayk at bnl.gov>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2023 5:12 PM
To: Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org<mailto:kagnanvo at jlab.org>>; Matthew Posik <posik at temple.edu<mailto:posik at temple.edu>>; erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org>; Woody, Craig <woody at bnl.gov<mailto:woody at bnl.gov>>; Azmoun, Bob <azmoun at bnl.gov<mailto:azmoun at bnl.gov>>; Tarafdar, Sourav <sourav.tarafdar at vanderbilt.edu<mailto:sourav.tarafdar at vanderbilt.edu>>; Huong Nguyen <htn3r.uva at gmail.com<mailto:htn3r.uva at gmail.com>>; Marcus Hohlmann <hohlmann at fit.edu<mailto:hohlmann at fit.edu>>; Nikolai Smirnov <nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu<mailto:nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu>>; matt posik <mposik1983 at gmail.com<mailto:mposik1983 at gmail.com>>; Annalisa D'Angelo <annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it<mailto:annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it>>
Subject: Re: call for FY24 R&D proposals and reports

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  Hi All,

  actually, after some thinking, I still don't understand why cannot we propose reusing the existing cylindrical prototype foils in a flat configuration, in addition to building a large dummy mockup, in the same proposal. The rationale is that indeed one year is not enough to build a large one, fine, but what's wrong about pretending we test a medium size one on the readout side, as an intermediate step to whatever happens past FY24, along with exploring mechanical and Co limitations of a full size detector? Then, whatever happens after FY24, we claim that we know how to build large frames, and we know that a reasonable size uRWell with a sparse readout works, beyond which point a full size working detector is the only remaining option to proceed. Otherwise we will always be kind of missing this intermediate scaling step from ~10cm to ~1m, to formulate a credible proposal next time IMHO.

  Cheers,

    Alexander.

________________________________

From: Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org<mailto:kagnanvo at jlab.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2023 3:52 PM
To: Matthew Posik <posik at temple.edu<mailto:posik at temple.edu>>; Kiselev, Alexander <ayk at bnl.gov<mailto:ayk at bnl.gov>>; erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org> <erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org>>; Woody, Craig <woody at bnl.gov<mailto:woody at bnl.gov>>; Azmoun, Bob <azmoun at bnl.gov<mailto:azmoun at bnl.gov>>; Tarafdar, Sourav <sourav.tarafdar at vanderbilt.edu<mailto:sourav.tarafdar at vanderbilt.edu>>; Huong Nguyen <htn3r.uva at gmail.com<mailto:htn3r.uva at gmail.com>>; Marcus Hohlmann <hohlmann at fit.edu<mailto:hohlmann at fit.edu>>; Nikolai Smirnov <nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu<mailto:nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu>>; matt posik <mposik1983 at gmail.com<mailto:mposik1983 at gmail.com>>; Annalisa D'Angelo <annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it<mailto:annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it>>
Subject: FW: call for FY24 R&D proposals and reports

From: Matthew Posik <posik at temple.edu<mailto:posik at temple.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2023 3:07 PM
To: Kiselev, Alexander <ayk at bnl.gov<mailto:ayk at bnl.gov>>; Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org<mailto:kagnanvo at jlab.org>>; erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org>; Woody, Craig <woody at bnl.gov<mailto:woody at bnl.gov>>; Azmoun, Bob <azmoun at bnl.gov<mailto:azmoun at bnl.gov>>; Tarafdar, Sourav <sourav.tarafdar at vanderbilt.edu<mailto:sourav.tarafdar at vanderbilt.edu>>; Huong Nguyen <htn3r.uva at gmail.com<mailto:htn3r.uva at gmail.com>>; Marcus Hohlmann <hohlmann at fit.edu<mailto:hohlmann at fit.edu>>; Nikolai Smirnov <nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu<mailto:nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu>>; matt posik <mposik1983 at gmail.com<mailto:mposik1983 at gmail.com>>; Annalisa D'Angelo <annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it<mailto:annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it>>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [Erd108] Quick meeting today

Hi Alexander,

Meeting is at 3PM

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__virginia.zoom.us_j_91920338307-3Fpwd-3DTEF3VDhlVUN0UnBIY0xkeWxqMXprQT09&d=DwIGaQ&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=6nBhCQ9asnI7Gb72jBWQ4g&m=XQIa5nRlnfoj31wkOesGB7z6RbMcX-zGvphPOTzUNaRZjZSL6b0BCuR_RldLx4gz&s=7bSa7_7yxJsgA8iP7BmMVdSs4jvp0QDyPeV4xuVm-5s&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__virginia.zoom.us_j_91920338307-3Fpwd-3DTEF3VDhlVUN0UnBIY0xkeWxqMXprQT09&d=DwMF-g&c=CJqEzB1piLOyyvZjb8YUQw&r=8RkWGK8Ehr23aQ4XZaeJkKhdeUjRK7rjlS9Ivaen0wM&m=mCRtGUKmHqbrbg8ACkHGi96MdxS5nCZN6BVBkoJkx7QKBQolCgA0MdEViPVw4PoZ&s=hxn-GlUeHzpN-aXWPYHSa_oBghIymKr4ZppsvUrI_04&e=>

Matt Posik

Research Associate Professor

Temple University

Department of Physics

SERC

1925 N. 12th St.

Philadelphia, PA 19122

USA

TU Office: SERC Room 451

Physics Office: SERC Room 406/4th Floor

________________________________

From: Kiselev, Alexander <ayk at bnl.gov<mailto:ayk at bnl.gov>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2023 3:06 PM
To: Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org<mailto:kagnanvo at jlab.org>>; erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org> <erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org>>; Woody, Craig <woody at bnl.gov<mailto:woody at bnl.gov>>; Azmoun, Bob <azmoun at bnl.gov<mailto:azmoun at bnl.gov>>; Tarafdar, Sourav <sourav.tarafdar at vanderbilt.edu<mailto:sourav.tarafdar at vanderbilt.edu>>; Huong Nguyen <htn3r.uva at gmail.com<mailto:htn3r.uva at gmail.com>>; Marcus Hohlmann <hohlmann at fit.edu<mailto:hohlmann at fit.edu>>; Nikolai Smirnov <nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu<mailto:nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu>>; matt posik <mposik1983 at gmail.com<mailto:mposik1983 at gmail.com>>; Annalisa D'Angelo <annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it<mailto:annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it>>
Subject: [External] Re: [Erd108] Quick meeting today

  Hi Kondo,

  unless the meeting took place at 2pm already, hat is the zoom link?

  Cheers,

    Alexander.

________________________________

From: Erd108 <erd108-bounces at jlab.org<mailto:erd108-bounces at jlab.org>> on behalf of Kondo Gnanvo <kagnanvo at jlab.org<mailto:kagnanvo at jlab.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2023 9:38 AM
To: erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org> <erd108 at jlab.org<mailto:erd108 at jlab.org>>; Woody, Craig <woody at bnl.gov<mailto:woody at bnl.gov>>; Azmoun, Bob <azmoun at bnl.gov<mailto:azmoun at bnl.gov>>; Tarafdar, Sourav <sourav.tarafdar at vanderbilt.edu<mailto:sourav.tarafdar at vanderbilt.edu>>; Huong Nguyen <htn3r.uva at gmail.com<mailto:htn3r.uva at gmail.com>>; Marcus Hohlmann <hohlmann at fit.edu<mailto:hohlmann at fit.edu>>; Nikolai Smirnov <nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu<mailto:nikolai.smirnov at yale.edu>>; matt posik <mposik1983 at gmail.com<mailto:mposik1983 at gmail.com>>; Annalisa D'Angelo <annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it<mailto:annalisa.dangelo at roma2.infn.it>>
Subject: [Erd108] Quick meeting today

Dear all,

Let’s have a quick meeting today to finalize the eRD108 proposal

I would suggest 2pm EST. We can move the time around to whichever works for all

I will send the zoom links later but it is the same eRD108 in case i forget

Francesco:

If you can not make it, could you still take care of the Micromegas section of the document addressing both progress report and proposal

The document is due this Friday. We are frighteningly late

Best regards

Kondo

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